Are we wrong to book a family holiday?

[Chelsaurus]

Hey guys, so I dont normally post personal stuff on here but here goes- Ill try my best to keep it short

Background: My mum died 2 years ago, left all of us heartbroken. I live with my dad and my two brothers (15 and 8, I'm 20) Since my mum died I have witnessed my grandma be so cruel and evil I couldnt believe it- towards my dad. Im going to spare most of the details but heres a few of the things she has done: told my youngest brother my dad is a clown so he would be scared of my dad (he ended up in tears- she did this twice), told my dad that my uncle has my auntie, she has my grandad and so who does he have? (now my mums gone- I told my dad he had me so ignore her) she tells my dad one thing that hes doing wrong and so he corrects it and then she tells him off (he can never do right) for example. she said his dad isnt involved enough (my dad tried to keep everything the same when my mum passed away, because my mums family lives extremely close to us they had always looked after us etc) so he involved his dad more and then she shouts at him for that.

Anyway.....

Situation: My brother came to me saying he wanted to go london, so I said why dont we go for mums birthday in august. So we pleaded my dad and he said ok (at the time my gran and grandad was away) i said i dont want to go with everyone else just us(theres always drama and i wanted no drama for once on my mums birthday) so we booked it. My dad told them and they wasnt impressed or anything, they couldnt even say oh youll have a nice time.

My grandma had my dad cornered the other day saying where was her invite etc and even came out with stuff like you didnt even say happy fathers day to my grandad off my mum on facebook!- my dad bought him stuff from my mum but that wasnt enough they wanted it on fb!! They have gone places without us- so why cant we go without them one time!!

These people are crazy and it gets to me and it gets to my dad. If you read all that I am sorry! haha Are we in the wrong?

 

[visibleghost]

your grandparents have 0 chill. it seems to me like your dad has rly tried to make things good since your mom passed, and that ypur grandma just wants to make him sad and ruin stuff?? ofc you aren't in the wrong, it is totally okay to go on a family holiday w close family only. if they want to go on a trip with you they can say that and then if you want to you can plan a trip together, but they have no right to be angry because your family is going on a family trip....,..

 

[Emachi]

They're being controlling and abusive. They are using the death of your loved one to make you feel pain... You haven't done anything wrong.

 

[amanda1983]

Nope you're not in the wrong in the slightest. Your dad sounds like an amazing man doing his very best for his three children after his wife died.

If I followed the relations correctly, this is his mother who is giving him more grief than being a widower has already, right? If not, she's his mother in law adding to his grief which is no more acceptable.

In any case, toxic people should be removed from the lives of children and in fact everyone as much as possible. Doesn't sound like this woman is able, let alone inclined, to change and start behaving herself in a decent, respectful manner towards your dad and your younger siblings (it came across as though you either handle yourself fine or she isn't aiming her vitriol at you directly, apologies if I've misunderstood this).

 

[Chelsaurus]

your grandparents have 0 chill. it seems to me like your dad has rly tried to make things good since your mom passed, and that ypur grandma just wants to make him sad and ruin stuff?? ofc you aren't in the wrong, it is totally okay to go on a family holiday w close family only. if they want to go on a trip with you they can say that and then if you want to you can plan a trip together, but they have no right to be angry because your family is going on a family trip....,..

Yeah it does seem like my grandma just wants to ruin stuff. My dad has been trying his best to keep things as close to normal as possible and its like they are making it so much harder then it has to be. The thing is Ive not been able to go away with just my dad and brothers- its always either been me going away with just my gran and grandad or they go away with my gran and grandad and its because I know its not going to be the same without my mum. But I finally feel ready to go away with them and they are just putting a big downer on it.
Thanks for commenting, its put my mind to rest

- - - Post Merge - - -

They're being controlling and abusive. They are using the death of your loved one to make you feel pain... You haven't done anything wrong.

Yes they are very controlling, they try to tell my dad when to take his holidays, money etc. Its ridiculous. I think they have always been controlling but now my mother has passed I see it now- I think she was kinda guarding it all and keeping it as calm as it could be. My mother had to go up every night to my grandmas to see her- despite finishing work so late- just to keep the peace. Its ridiculous. Thanks also for commenting!

 

[otomatoe]

NO. You are not wrong at all. It's your family after all, and it's your absolute right to spend holiday and have great times with your dearest. Seriously do not mind what your grandparents said. Props to your dad for being so super taking care of 3 children after your mom's passing. She must be very proud of him! And you & your brothers are soooo lucky to have him by your side! <3

Enjoy your vacation in London and celebrate your mom's birthday with your family's joy & happiness! <3

 

[Chelsaurus]

Nope you're not in the wrong in the slightest. Your dad sounds like an amazing man doing his very best for his three children after his wife died.

If I followed the relations correctly, this is his mother who is giving him more grief than being a widower has already, right? If not, she's his mother in law adding to his grief which is no more acceptable.

In any case, toxic people should be removed from the lives of children and in fact everyone as much as possible. Doesn't sound like this woman is able, let alone inclined, to change and start behaving herself in a decent, respectful manner towards your dad and your younger siblings (it came across as though you either handle yourself fine or she isn't aiming her vitriol at you directly, apologies if I've misunderstood this).

Its my mums mother hers giving him grief. A year later of my mum passing his mum passed away also, so hes had it rough the past few years.

I completely agree the only problem is they help us too much with my brothers, without them god knows where we would be. Yeah I handle myself fine- I will tell her straight forward, and I will tell her when shes in the wrong about my dad (and the same to my dad) They seem to only be helping us so then when we have an argument they can be like well we did this and that and this and that. Actually when my grandma corner him my little brother was with him and he got upset- when they got home he told my dad he doesnt want him to go up to my grandmas anymore because shes nasty to him

I know she will never change- I accept that. Its why I barely go up to see her. I suppose we just gotta put up with it for a couple more years till my brother is in highschool and then we can just do whatever

- - - Post Merge - - -

NO. You are not wrong at all. It's your family after all, and it's your absolute right to spend holiday and have great times with your dearest. Seriously do not mind what your grandparents said. Props to your dad for being so super taking care of 3 children after your mom's passing. She must be very proud of him! And you & your brothers are soooo lucky to have him by your side! <3

Enjoy your vacation in London and celebrate your mom's birthday with your family's joy & happiness! <3

Thank you so much that means alot, youre completely right! <3

 

[Corrie]

Tell your grandma to screw off. Seriously.

 

[Chelsaurus]

Tell your grandma to screw off. Seriously.

HAHAHAHA Believe me, Ive done that too many times!

 

[Fleshy]

Not at all. You, your brothers and your dad deserve to go on holiday. Your Grandma really does seem to be overstepping some boundaries and really tying to make life even harder for your dad, she seems to be being mean and controlling for no reason. Anyway, as everyone else has said, it's perfectly fine for you and your family to go on holiday, try not to let your Grandma get you down, it's sounds great - have fun!

 

[KaydeeKrunk]

I hope you go and take a ton of pictures and tag them in all of them on facebook. Honestly your grandma sounds so freaking toxic.

 

[amanda1983]

Ah I see, rereading your post things make more sense to me now. Yes. She will never change. The loss of her daughter may have sparked a change of heart, a realisation of what really matters in life. But it didn't. I'm afraid there is almost no chance whatsoever that a person who behaves as you describe will change for the better.

So. If you're stuck with them for the next couple of year's for your youngest brother's sake (I'm assuming help in mornings and/or after school and general help running the house)... then I would behaving some serious talks with dad and then each brother separately, assuming dad's on the same page. Try to nut out what boundaries are important to each of you. If your little brother doesn't want to go back - and who could blame him? Apart from Toxic Grandma - then is that an option? Could care arrangements be changed at all to allow him to avoid going to that house? That's just an example of an angle to consider. More than likely things can't be changed much in the short term barring unforseen circumstances. So, what kinds of things do you think this Grandma *should not* say to your little brother? To your dad? Write a list. Talk about it with them and make sure you're all okay. Then, seriously consider putting your foot down with this woman. Set those boundaries YOUR family decide you need, for everyone's sake. You don't want to cut this woman out entirely .. or rather, you're trying to prevent things getting to that point, for your brother's sake and for the memory of your mother. But *these* are your terms. Include some negotiables (the possibility of shared holidays in the future subject to availability of each person, and other circumstances), as well as your absolutes (grandparent-free holiday in memory of your mum, as you just feel this is something private you, dad, and brothers are doing - it's not personal, please don't make this about you, yada yada yada).

At 20, you're in a very difficult spot as these are complicated dynamics and there's a limit to how much you can - and should try - to take on yourself. But your mother - her daughter - is dead. You have a position that your dad doesn't, and can bring this stuff out in the open in a way that is much more likely to help than anything I can think of your dad trying. Based on your comments only, of course, and my interpretation.

Ultimately, as someone who has worked with some very damaged children, my goal is always to remove or otherwise mitigate the cause of the trauma/stress. And this woman may frankly, in all honesty, be doing more harm than good for your little brothers if this pattern is left unchecked. To be clear, I'm not judging anyone except this Grandma, I'm just trying to diplomatically point out the risk/benefit perspective.

 

[Chelsaurus]

Ah I see, rereading your post things make more sense to me now. Yes. She will never change. The loss of her daughter may have sparked a change of heart, a realisation of what really matters in life. But it didn't. I'm afraid there is almost no chance whatsoever that a person who behaves as you describe will change for the better.

So. If you're stuck with them for the next couple of year's for your youngest brother's sake (I'm assuming help in mornings and/or after school and general help running the house)... then I would behaving some serious talks with dad and then each brother separately, assuming dad's on the same page. Try to nut out what boundaries are important to each of you. If your little brother doesn't want to go back - and who could blame him? Apart from Toxic Grandma - then is that an option? Could care arrangements be changed at all to allow him to avoid going to that house? That's just an example of an angle to consider. More than likely things can't be changed much in the short term barring unforseen circumstances. So, what kinds of things do you think this Grandma *should not* say to your little brother? To your dad? Write a list. Talk about it with them and make sure you're all okay. Then, seriously consider putting your foot down with this woman. Set those boundaries YOUR family decide you need, for everyone's sake. You don't want to cut this woman out entirely .. or rather, you're trying to prevent things getting to that point, for your brother's sake and for the memory of your mother. But *these* are your terms. Include some negotiables (the possibility of shared holidays in the future subject to availability of each person, and other circumstances), as well as your absolutes (grandparent-free holiday in memory of your mum, as you just feel this is something private you, dad, and brothers are doing - it's not personal, please don't make this about you, yada yada yada).

At 20, you're in a very difficult spot as these are complicated dynamics and there's a limit to how much you can - and should try - to take on yourself. But your mother - her daughter - is dead. You have a position that your dad doesn't, and can bring this stuff out in the open in a way that is much more likely to help than anything I can think of your dad trying. Based on your comments only, of course, and my interpretation.

Ultimately, as someone who has worked with some very damaged children, my goal is always to remove or otherwise mitigate the cause of the trauma/stress. And this woman may frankly, in all honesty, be doing more harm than good for your little brothers if this pattern is left unchecked. To be clear, I'm not judging anyone except this Grandma, I'm just trying to diplomatically point out the risk/benefit perspective.

Thank you for your insight, I really appreciate you taking some time to comment. Yeah I completely understand she will never change. Things have calmed down and its not as bad as it was.

Yeah my grandad and her will help take and pick my brother up from school and make him tea as my dad does a 8-6 job. The first few months she did come in and tidy up or put washing in every so often now she cant step in the house because of my mother she says. Auntie also helps my grandma out as well so he doesn't always goes to my grandmas.

I think one of the problems with her is that me and my gran use to be extremely close before mum passed away. And now I've seen how she is-lets just say she isn't my fave person and I've always stuck up for my dad against her (when she's been in the wrong). Ive tried asking what the issue is but she ignores me

My dad has put his foot down with a few things, like having his holidays when he wants etc. I've told him he needs to sort this money business out and that and so we've sorted that out etc. But you're right we do need to set boundaries. I think my dad is scared to make the wrong move and then we are stuck with no help with my brothers.

Yeah you're completely right- at the start I tried to take it all on and it ended up being so very stressful for me, but I know I cant do everything by myself. I have tried and I would live to just sit there and talk to them, explain things but I'm wrong everytime and they are right- when my dad gets his dad to help they look at it as replacing them when they could do that but really we are just trying to give them a break. Its just a dead end with them. They look at things black and white.
My dad has told me that I word things in a similar way that my mum did with my gran-no shouting involved or anything just saying things in a certain way that gets them thinking twice like getting back at their own 'game'

You're probably right, she is probably doing more harm than good. I think I'm in a sticky situation where I'm just angry with my grandma and I don't want to see her but then I feel guilty and i feel like she is my gran at the end of the day and despite how she is there is another side to her and how bad id feel if anything ever happened to her and I regret not going to see her etc.

 

[Miii]

No offense, but your dad needs to grow a set and quit letting his mom dictate what he can and can't do. Sever that umbilical cord and tell that ***** to shut the **** up.

You guys have go have fun on your vacation and don't think twice about your nutjob grandma. And by the way, your grandma can't do anything to you. You can tell her how ridiculous she's being, and if she puts her hands on you, call the police. She deserves whatever she gets.

 

[Emachi]

Yeah it does seem like my grandma just wants to ruin stuff. My dad has been trying his best to keep things as close to normal as possible and its like they are making it so much harder then it has to be. The thing is Ive not been able to go away with just my dad and brothers- its always either been me going away with just my gran and grandad or they go away with my gran and grandad and its because I know its not going to be the same without my mum. But I finally feel ready to go away with them and they are just putting a big downer on it.
Thanks for commenting, its put my mind to rest

- - - Post Merge - - -



Yes they are very controlling, they try to tell my dad when to take his holidays, money etc. Its ridiculous. I think they have always been controlling but now my mother has passed I see it now- I think she was kinda guarding it all and keeping it as calm as it could be. My mother had to go up every night to my grandmas to see her- despite finishing work so late- just to keep the peace. Its ridiculous. Thanks also for commenting!

I would just ignore them and stop talking to them so much as a family.
You are clearly unhappy with them being around you and just forcing your family to talk to them won't help you.
They are using your mother's death to control your father because he is clearly vulnerable after his loved one dies... no idea how they have the heart to do that.
Also have fun in London! I live in London... you will probably think it is awesome and everything but living here is awful don't worry ^^

 

[Mega_Cabbage]

No. I think your mom would want you to have a good time with close family on her birthday. There's no use spending the day sitting at home and being sad/angry/regretful.

 

[Chicha]

Nah, your grandma sounds like a class A narcissist. I have relatives like this and they will never change unless they have it set in their mind to change. As sad as it sounds, there's no helping them. Setting off drama is their favorite thing in the world. I would recommend having a low contact to no contact relationship with her tbh. Just because they're family doesn't mean you and your family have to put up with your grandma's crap and be mistreated. I agree your dad should not be in contact with her at all. It's obvious her presence is causing unnecessary stress. As long as your dad keeps paying attention to her tantrums, she will continue this behavior.

However, since you're all living together, this makes it tricky. Ignoring them or constant repetition is key in this type of situation. Sometimes you have to talk to them as if they were a toddler/child. No, seriously. This Reddit group has more information about how to deal with people like that.

Go have fun in London with your family. I'm sure that's what your mother would have wanted. Good luck.

 

[amanda1983]

Thank you for your insight, I really appreciate you taking some time to comment. Yeah I completely understand she will never change. Things have calmed down and its not as bad as it was.

Yeah my grandad and her will help take and pick my brother up from school and make him tea as my dad does a 8-6 job. The first few months she did come in and tidy up or put washing in every so often now she cant step in the house because of my mother she says. Auntie also helps my grandma out as well so he doesn't always goes to my grandmas.

I think one of the problems with her is that me and my gran use to be extremely close before mum passed away. And now I've seen how she is-lets just say she isn't my fave person and I've always stuck up for my dad against her (when she's been in the wrong). Ive tried asking what the issue is but she ignores me

My dad has put his foot down with a few things, like having his holidays when he wants etc. I've told him he needs to sort this money business out and that and so we've sorted that out etc. But you're right we do need to set boundaries. I think my dad is scared to make the wrong move and then we are stuck with no help with my brothers.

Yeah you're completely right- at the start I tried to take it all on and it ended up being so very stressful for me, but I know I cant do everything by myself. I have tried and I would live to just sit there and talk to them, explain things but I'm wrong everytime and they are right- when my dad gets his dad to help they look at it as replacing them when they could do that but really we are just trying to give them a break. Its just a dead end with them. They look at things black and white.
My dad has told me that I word things in a similar way that my mum did with my gran-no shouting involved or anything just saying things in a certain way that gets them thinking twice like getting back at their own 'game'

You're probably right, she is probably doing more harm than good. I think I'm in a sticky situation where I'm just angry with my grandma and I don't want to see her but then I feel guilty and i feel like she is my gran at the end of the day and despite how she is there is another side to her and how bad id feel if anything ever happened to her and I regret not going to see her etc.

That's tough, very tough, to have been close to her before your mum died and then lose grandma in a way, too, as you see more of who she is in her behaviour towards your dad. You've done an amazing job to make it as far as you have basically alone. It was clear from how you described things and the examples you gave that you love your family very much and have worked hard to keep things as 'together' as possible. Holding a family together under these circumstances would be extraordinarily difficult at any age. But to have managed so much between (approx) 18 and 20? Wow. That is truly commendable. Your dad, your brothers, and your grandparents - even that grandma - are all very lucky to have you.

I think you might actually have a couple of seperate things going on here : obviously the biggest being her/their lack of appropriate behaviours and respect for normal boundaries. I specialise in working with children 5 or younger and their families, and unhealthy and disfunctional dynamics amongst extended families is very common. In my experience the longer these patterns continue unchecked, the harder things are to turn around. So I suggest trying to nut those boundaries out with your dad and brothers ASAP, although there is no NO benefit from rushing anyone or trying to steamroll over anyone even grandma. Sadly.

The other thing looks to me like your unresolved issues with grandma. You were close, she was there for you, but after your mum died you lost that safe, close relationship AND saw her verbally and emotionally attack your dad and hurt your brothers. She's also tried to hurt you the same way but you have been able to successfully stand up to her. This doesn't make things okay though, as she *tried*, and you are still stuck dealing with the fallout from her attacks on your dad etc. That's a lot for anyone to cope with. A young woman who just lost their mother has quite enough grief to work through without a trusted relative turning on her and her family at that time.

It's completely up to you how you want to deal with this grief. It might be good if you can get to a point where you can talk honestly to her about how you felt before and after mum died, that you guys were close but then it just felt "(felt" and "feel" are key words - even if true that it was intentional, the bluntness of "you did.." "you said" etc is generally going to aggravate in these situations) like you ____ (were abandoned? had lost your grandma? Whatever is most important to you). Take your time. Process your feelings and your grief and work through this stage for as long as it takes. You need to deal with ALL the things you've lost. I'm guessing you've had support or access to help for working through your grief over losing your mum. Could they help you with this too? It's common for grief over losing a parent so young to linger, and also for the fallout to continue for a few years afterwards as so many changes occur. If you don't have ready access to someone who can help you, try googling, asking your Dr, anything you can think of. You're carrying a heavy load and it would be a big help for to find someone neutral, external to the situation, to talk to, if you're comfortable doing so. If not, then trying to work the stages of grief yourself is still do-able but will be harder. There's a lot of info and support networks online, try and find 1-2 sites that suit your needs and consider actively participating. Taking care of yourself is THE best thing you can do for yourself, your, dad, and your brothers. Practice self-care every day even if that's something you've struggled with or to maintain since your mum died.

I haven't been in your situation but my mother lost her's at 13, and still hasn't gotten over that grief 30 years later as her older siblings and her dad were too stuck in their grief (or busy with their own lives) to notice hers. As an adult she was free to seek help and deal with her issues, but there was a lot that happened in those few years before I was born, and she never did get that help. It's a part of her now and she'll never get over it. Who knows how things would have happened if her loved ones had been able to help her more? We'll never know. She might still have gotten stuck in her grief no matter what. Or she might have been able to work through it and be stronger for it. I spent my entire childhood in fear she was going to die and I'd need to take of my younger sisters (I have 3). She just wanted me to be prepared in case she did, since she hadn't been when her mum had died..

This is to explain my own personal and professional bias, as I've lived with the consequences of people not dealing with their grief. Your situation is very different from what happened to my mum (she was the youngest of 5, the others were all adults, her dad was in a wheelchair after an amputated leg). So please take anyrhing I've said that works for you, and disregard the rest.

If you want to talk more about this stuff or anything else, please feel free to PM/VM me anytime. I can't promise to fix anything (much as I'd love to), but I can promise to listen/read and understand your perspective. You are a wonderful person who is going through a lot. If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Try to focus on all the positives, and enjoy being together just the 4 of you can be. You've done nothing wrong, and things *will* get better. It might be a long time coming, and take a lot of hard work, but you'll find a way through these issues. And - enjoy your holiday! I've only been to the UK once and it wasn't with family but I loved every second of it. I'm sure you guys will have a fabulous time!

 

[Buttonsy]

Family is about who cares about you and you care about, not about who you share blood and genetics with, when it really comes down to it. As someone who has been mistreated by a very large portion of my family all my life, and so I have cut most of them out of my life, I can absolutely say there is nothing wrong with wanting time away from a family member who doesn't respect you.

 

[vel]

It is totally fine to take a trip with only your close family! And also you do not have to continue talking to your grandmother on normal occasions. Toxic people, even family members, should be cut off. It sounds terrible that your grandmother is putting more grief on top of losing a spouse. You should totally go on that trip and leave your grandma behind, have fun in London!