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Thread: Israel

  1. #11
    50% sea 50% weed Tessie's Avatar
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    OMGGGG I have 5 cumulative final exams starting in 4 days I literally cannot sit and reply to that LOL. I'll get back to you on December 15!


    Like I said this is a very controversial topic :P I see what you're saying, I promise! I see good points from both sides personally.
    I'm not talking to you in any arrogant or aggressive tone so I hope you don't with me! I'm simply stating how I think and feel.
    Last edited by Tessie; 12-07-2017 at 12:35 AM.
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  2. #12
    The Czech Snooper Goshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tessie View Post
    OMGGGG I have 5 cumulative final exams starting in 4 days I literally cannot sit and reply to that LOL. I'll get back to you on December 15!


    Like I said this is a very controversial topic :P I see what you're saying, I promise! I see good points from both sides personally.
    I'm not talking to you in any arrogant or aggressive tone so I hope you don't with me! I'm simply stating how I think and feel.
    If this thread's even still open by then, lol. But yeah, good luck with the exams.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Bingo View Post
    Short answer: I support his decision recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
    Congress already passed a law about this in the 1990's iirc. But every President since then, Dem or Repub, has cited a National Security exemption from following its mandate (until now).

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  4. #14
    שלום wizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshi View Post
    The violence and settler-colonization programs of the Israeli State are not and will never be okay or necessary, nor is denunciation of the Israeli State inherently an attack on Jewish citizens of Israel. What the Israeli State is doing to the increasingly confined Palestinian communities in terms of military violence and resource deprivation are not self-defense tactics. It’s the victimization of a vulnerable and dependent population. But yes, it’s important to recognize zionism as settler-colonialism and to realise that this is the problem, not jewish people or communities.

    - - - Post Merge - - -

    (I was hoping for a post merge there, but I guess I'm too late, lol)
    I think there is more violence towards Jews from Palestinians than from Jews to Pelestinians. If you look at Palestinian media, you can find kids on TV saying they want to kill the Jews. Palestinians and their government have made it very clear that they want to kill ALL the Jews and push the Israelites into the sea. Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state many times, every single time the Palestinians denied it and attacked Israel. The occupation of Palestine is actually legal under international law (but the USA's occupation of Hawai’i isn't), because Israel had to occupy it for their safety. The entire area of the West Bank (I think Judea and Samaria is a more accurate name) belonged to the Jews before the destruction of the second temple, it's the most Jewish area of Israel (by history, not by population). Palestinians don't even deserve their own state. Before the Islamic Caliphate invaded in the 600s (I think it was 600s) there had not been a single Arab born in Jerusalem or probably all of Israel. In Gaza after Egypt invaded and Israel lost control and abandoned the settlements, the Palestinians voted Hamas into power (a terrorist organization). If you vote some terrorist organization into power, you shouldn't have a country.

    People think the Israeli checkpoints make Palestinians less free, even though Israel is just protecting itself from terrorists, Palestinians can still pass through, Israelis are the ones who can't pass through because they know they'll probably get killed by Palestinians. By the way Palestinians aren't a real thing, Palestinian leaders made it up as an excuse for what they want and brainwashed the Arab population with it. In fact, before the idea of "Palestinian" people was made up, the Arabs in Palestine said they were nothing but Southern Syrians. Jews accepted anything for their own country in Israel, the British even once gave the Jews 20% of the land and the "Palestinians" 80%, the Jews accepted it because they'd accept anything, but the "Palestinians" denied it because nothing is enough for them until all the Jews are dead.

    - - - Post Merge - - -

    Oh also, Israel ships a whole bunch of food to Gaza all the time so the "Palestinians" can eat, they could starve them if they wanted to, but they don't. If the "Palestinians" were in Israel and the Jews were in Palestine and Gaza, I guarantee the "Palestinians" would be starving the Jews and having another Holocaust.
    Last edited by wizard; 12-07-2017 at 08:25 AM.

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  5. #15
    שלום wizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshi View Post
    They’re disgusting racists who mistreat Israeli Jewish folks of color in addition to treating Palestinians with a shocking amount of violence and systematic oppression. Israel’s government is run by right-wing religious extremists who need to be ousted if they ever want to end the mess.
    Mistreat Jewish folks of color? Hmm, that's weird especially since all Jews are people of color. Most Jews look light skinned because when they were kicked out of their own land and were in Europe for almost 2,000 years, they mixed with the Europeans. I think all Jews know that if they were 100% Jewish they would have dark skin.

    - - - Post Merge - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshi View Post
    Now on to the main problem: Zionism. Zionism is a European colonial endeavor that sought to deprive and demean the native population of Palestine of land and dignity and continues to do so.
    That's basically saying that Jews want to deprive themselves. Jews are the native population of Palestine. I don't think West Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel, because it makes way more sense for East Jerusalem to be the capital. Especially because that's where the Jewish temples were and where the Old City (the real Jerusalem) is.

    - - - Post Merge - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshi View Post
    Nineteenth century colonialism sought to transplant European ideals in so-called "backward" nations around the world, with no regard to the native populations. The Arabs of Palestine were seen as backward, in European terms. So yes, the whole Zionist tag-line of "A people without a land for a land without people," is colonist language and disregards the native populations of Palestine. Zionists, in European eyes, were seen as establishing western ideals in the Orient.(Psst, if the results today don't show it, it went very badly.)
    I agree that Israel is a product of European colonization. Israel is too western and European style now. I'd rather Israel be an eastern style Jewish kingdom, like it used to be thousands of years ago. The Jews are the native people of Palestine though, but even though they are, to me Israel doesn't seem very Jewish. I don't like the modern west (I like the ancient west better), it's too Christian and stuff, I'd rather people still believe in the ancient native religions, like Greek mythology (which a small group of people still believe in). I think it would be more interesting. Zionism though is actually just the idea that Jews should move back to Israel, which doing that isn't bad itself, but they brought the west with them, something that doesn't belong in Israel, whether it's ancient or modern west.

    I am glad though that the British did colonize and create Israel. I think the government like anywhere else is bad but it's definatly the BEST in the Middle East.

    Everyone says Israel is an apartheid state but black South Africans who have lived through apartheid have confirmed that it's not.

    Israel is the most democratic country in the Middle East. People focus on it so much and say they violate human rights but TAKE A LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAN WHO DO MUCH WORSE.

    Israel gives freedom of religion to everyone, and gives everyone equal rights, but Palestinian leaders brainwash the Palestinians and the rest of the world and make them think that Israel is evil.

    I really wouldn't be surprised if there's another holocaust soon.
    Last edited by wizard; 12-07-2017 at 09:48 AM.

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  6. #16
    שלום wizard's Avatar
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    Oh look now the Hamas leader is calling for a new intifada this is why Palestinians shouldn't have their own state.

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  7. #17
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  9. #19
    The Czech Snooper Goshi's Avatar
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    I was going to assume you read everything I wrote, but I suppose that'd be a no because you repeated things to me I've already covered in both of your posts. Or... maybe it's just persistence... Anyways, let's go on.

    I agree that Israel is a product of European colonization. Israel is too western and European style now. I'd rather Israel be an eastern style Jewish kingdom, like it used to be thousands of years ago. The Jews are the native people of Palestine though, but even though they are, to me Israel doesn't seem very Jewish. I don't like the modern west (I like the ancient west better), it's too Christian and stuff, I'd rather people still believe in the ancient native religions, like Greek mythology (which a small group of people still believe in). I think it would be more interesting.
    Speaking of repeats though, I literally went through the whole history of Israel in my last post. The statement of Jewish people being native to Palestine is false, if I gotta make it short, here.

    Zionism though is actually just the idea that Jews should move back to Israel, which doing that isn't bad itself, but they brought the west with them, something that doesn't belong in Israel, whether it's ancient or modern west.
    Yikes, you have an extremely misguided view on Zionism. There's absolutely nothing excusable for a notion that involves war and ethnic cleansing, I don't know why you would even attempt to spin it into something so simplified and mask it as something that's okay. You know what it means to justify colonialism, right? That means you're giving the "OK" to dispossession of the Palestinian people through land confiscation, forced exile, and massacres. Obviously not good.

    I am glad though that the British did colonize and create Israel. I think the government like anywhere else is bad but it's definatly the BEST in the Middle East.
    So... you're glad about the whole mass murdering process and erasure of people from their homeland...
    Nice apologism, I guess?

    Everyone says Israel is an apartheid state but black South Africans who have lived through apartheid have confirmed that it's not.
    First of all, cite that.
    Second of all, even if that's true, what they say doesn't matter because apartheid is apartheid even if some people deny it is. Anyone can deny something that's real, just look at the flat earth people.

    To be serious, though, this "apartheid Israel" isn't some political slogan folks are slinging around, it's a legitimate reality. Around 70 per cent of all towns within Israel - Palestinian land occupied since 1948 - are "for Jews only"; the state's Arab citizens are banned from living therein. This has been the sustained policy since the establishment of the State of Israel on Palestinian land. The means and methods may have changed, but Israel’s goal has not; establishing "Arab-free" towns, which are solely for those who have Jewish ethnicity, is the official intention. This is no ordinary discrimination in favor of one group of citizens; this is Apartheid itself. Despite this obvious fact, it is an issue which the international community would rather not address and so Israel continues to get away with it.

    The so-called Israel Land Authority manages 94 per cent of the 1948 Palestinian lands on behalf of three main "owners": First, the State of Israel, which claims ownership of 69 per cent of the 1948 land that was inherited from the British Mandate Government, seized because it was alleged that it had no owners or was simply confiscated. The second "owner" is the Development Authority, which lays claim to 12 per cent of the land that was handed over by the protector of properties belonging to "absentees"; in other words, properties that belong to ethnically-cleansed Palestinians. The third is the Jewish National Fund, which "owns" 13 per cent of the land. A small percentage of the JNF land was seized or purchased by the fund prior to the creation of the State of Israel. However, most consists of land that belonged to Palestinians driven from their homes in 1948 which was then given to the JNF as a gift by the government of Israel after the state was established, as part of what is known as the first million deal and the second million deal.

    This one's gonna require a Google search to learn more, because the original article turned into... well... this.

    But this all fits what defines apartheid, which is a government whose policies and institutions promote segregation and discrimination based on race, which is just like South Africa. This is simple. Jewish people have special rights and privileges that Palestinians are derived of. Bada boom, apartheid state.

    Israel is the most democratic country in the Middle East. People focus on it so much and say they violate human rights but TAKE A LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAN WHO DO MUCH WORSE.
    Who cares who does worse? This isn't some sort of pissing contest to see who can be the better of the worst countries. You're literally just saying it doesn't matter how they treat their people because it could be worse, which only ignores issues that are going on and allows them to grow and normalize. It's dismissive language.

    Israel gives freedom of religion to everyone, and gives everyone equal rights, but Palestinian leaders brainwash the Palestinians and the rest of the world and make them think that Israel is evil.
    Sure... even though I literally had a link that showed evidence of Israel doing dirty work such as forcing sites to fabricate propaganda and the like and popularizing them, while there's evidence of Palestinian claims from a variety of sites that're able to be traced back to one topic, you can totally say that.

    Mistreat Jewish folks of color? Hmm, that's weird especially since all Jews are people of color. Most Jews look light skinned because when they were kicked out of their own land and were in Europe for almost 2,000 years, they mixed with the Europeans. I think all Jews know that if they were 100% Jewish they would have dark skin.
    [European] Jewishness is not read abroad as non-white, it’s read abroad as lesser white. This is literally taxonomized in scientific racism, and even with the Nazis, it was about Nordicism and "the Aryan race", subcategories of the white race.

    There are ethnic Jewish folk who are not white, either by intermarriage or because the people do not come from a European group of ethnic Jewish folk. This includes most but not all Sephardic Jewish folk (some are Spanish/Italian/French/otherwise European). there are Jewish ethnic groups that originate from all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa. post-1492 Judaism also diffused into many parts of the Americas, though this happened as a result of European colonization.

    Here, whiteness is defined in relation to post-1492 European colonization. Not DNA, not genetics, not an identity. Whiteness is property, whiteness is how you are positioned relative to this system. White Jewish folk have and continue to participate and benefit from post-1492 European colonization. Although some, and probably most of this participation, comes from fleeing antisemitism, that doesn’t excuse it.

    Consider:



    What's now happening is that a lot of people have gotten together and decided that they aren't white. A lot of this is really closely tied to Zionism, as there’s this ideology of "all Jewish people are middle eastern" which is simply not true(I even went over this in my previous post, again). Middle eastern Jewish folks are middle eastern. Judaism and the Jewish people have origins in the middle east, but saying that all Jewish people are middle eastern obscures the very real power that European Jewish people have over middle eastern/otherwise non-European ones.

    From what I've also been told by many folks down in the Jewish communities(that's where I'm getting this all from, by the way), if there's no white Jewish people, what is there? Just brown Jewish dude here and slightly lighter brown Jewish guy over there? That completely disables any discussion on power dynamics within Jewish communities by framing it as if they're all at an equal ground with power and white supremacy when that is clearly and historically not the case.

    Obviously no matter what, Jewish people of all kinds face antisemitism. This is undeniable and I'm not rejecting that notion at all, and that was never a suggestion I'd dare to make.

    But the tools and language of racism have been used in constructing modern antisemitism, and fundamentally white Jewish people have historically and continue to benefit from antiblackness, racism, and white supremacy... hence how the whole square one comment I made on the government being "disgusting racists who mistreat Israeli Jewish folks of color" ties in to all of this.
    Last edited by Goshi; 12-15-2017 at 03:24 AM.
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  10. #20
    (●♡∀♡) oppaiyo ! piichinu's Avatar
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    israel lowkey a bunch of ****s to the country of my ethnicity but i do enjoy seeing them be manipulated for the benefit of the united states i guess





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