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So Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital and will be moving the US embassy there, something I'm VERY happy about. This is definatly my favorite thing Trump has done. (But I still don't like him).

I'm obviously pro-Israel, so how do you feel about the issue of Israel and Palestine?
 
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Personally, I don't have a problem with the US supporting Israel, but I'm not sure if this was the best move... I have a feeling that Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama were all opposed to these moves for a reason.
 
I would prefer Jerusalem to be an independent city state given its high importance to multiple religions, but I don't see that happening.
 
This is a highly controversial topic....

I am pro-israel though....and whenever I see people who arent I kind of can't help but think they may be anti-Semitic. I know thats BAD way to see the other side but....IDK Im Jewish so I get hurt lol
 
it's one of those controversies that just doesn't seem to have a clear resolution.

Trump's decision seems like a 'No soup for you" message to Palestinians, or will certainly be viewed that way.
 
This is a highly controversial topic....

I am pro-israel though....and whenever I see people who arent I kind of can't help but think they may be anti-Semitic. I know thats BAD way to see the other side but....IDK Im Jewish so I get hurt lol

The violence and settler-colonization programs of the Israeli State are not and will never be okay or necessary, nor is denunciation of the Israeli State inherently an attack on Jewish citizens of Israel. What the Israeli State is doing to the increasingly confined Palestinian communities in terms of military violence and resource deprivation are not self-defense tactics. It’s the victimization of a vulnerable and dependent population. But yes, it’s important to recognize zionism as settler-colonialism and to realise that this is the problem, not jewish people or communities.

- - - Post Merge - - -

(I was hoping for a post merge there, but I guess I'm too late, lol)
 
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The violence and settler-colonization programs of the Israeli State are not and will never be okay or necessary, nor is denunciation of the Israeli State inherently an attack on Jewish citizens of Israel. What the Israeli State is doing to the increasingly confined Palestinian communities in terms of military violence and resource deprivation are not self-defense tactics. It?s the victimization of a vulnerable and dependent population. But yes, it?s important to recognize zionism as settler-colonialism and to realise that this is the problem, not jewish people or communities.

- - - Post Merge - - -

(I was hoping for a post merge there, but I guess I'm too late, lol)

There's violence on both sides, Israel is well equipped and financially well supported from various countries (US) to defend themselves and have the upper hand.
It's not like Palestine is constantly getting attacked and just standing there doing nothing, they are also violent and engage in terroristic activities killing mass civilians and innocent Israeli people as well.
I see it as Israel defending itself, and others see it as Palestine defending itself. Like I said, it's a very controversial topic.

I believe with the whole Middle East, majority of Africa, and some Asian countries/Islands (e.g. Indonesia) that are filled with a massive Islamic population, a land about the size of New Jersey inhabited by Jews (the smallest religious population that have always been hatefully targeted) being constantly under attack sounds like hate.
Historically, the Jewish people have been under exile or thrown out of land plenty of times, especially the land of Israel. Yeah Israel was "founded" in 1948, but historically, way back in biblical times in Judea (present-day Israel) this was the home of the Jews known as Israelites who spoke ancient Hebrew. They were driven out after a Roman conquest where the Roman empire named it Palestina after Phillistia which is a figure in the Hebrew bible. The reason I am explaining this is because the Jews have had a very long and ancient connection with the land of present day Israel, it is very sacred to these people, and it has historically always been their land. The Jewish people have struggled all throughout history, not to mention WW2 holocaust genocide. That's why I, perhaps irrationally, sometimes feel that it is antisemitic to stop these people in living in a land that was technically historically theirs that they were taken away from in ancient times. When Israel became a state in 1948, they were immediately attacked on the FIRST day by Palestinians throwing an air missile.

Many Palestinians, such as the Hamas, feel VERY strongly about Israel and will not stop until Israel is gone, and they are supported by Islamic countries in their fight against Israel. If Israel stops defending themselves, if they stop receiving aid, they will lose their land and they will experience the murder of their people.
Peace has tried to be done, Palestine really doesn't wish to negotiate if it means Israel won't go away.

Take for example the now deceased Ariel Sharon, former Prime Minister of Israel. He tried to cooperate with Palestine and gave them more land, known as Gaza. This land is now a big area of violence, where the Hamas send missiles across to Israel. It's very hard to cooperate with Palestinian groups such as Hamas, who have said they will stop at nothing until they wipe out the state of Israel.

Israel is one of the only few democratic countries in the Middle East offering suffrage for all citizens (INCLUDING their Palestinian citizens). I personally have not been to Israel but many of my friends have as well as my mother, with no apartheid that they have ever observed. Palestinian citizens can attend university, can vote, can do anything Israeli citizens have the right to do.

Personally, I see a never ending conflict because Israel wants to exist and Palestine wants Israel to go away. There's nothing to negotiate with such polar opposite views that both parties feel extremely strong and deep about.
 
There's violence on both sides, Israel is well equipped and financially well supported from various countries (US) to defend themselves and have the upper hand.
It's not like Palestine is constantly getting attacked and just standing there doing nothing, they are also violent and engage in terroristic activities killing mass civilians and innocent Israeli people as well.
I see it as Israel defending itself, and others see it as Palestine defending itself. Like I said, it's a very controversial topic.

I believe with the whole Middle East, majority of Africa, and some Asian countries/Islands (e.g. Indonesia) that are filled with a massive Islamic population, a land about the size of New Jersey inhabited by Jews (the smallest religious population that have always been hatefully targeted) being constantly under attack sounds like hate.
Historically, the Jewish people have been under exile or thrown out of land plenty of times, especially the land of Israel. Yeah Israel was "founded" in 1948, but historically, way back in biblical times in Judea (present-day Israel) this was the home of the Jews known as Israelites who spoke ancient Hebrew. They were driven out after a Roman conquest where the Roman empire named it Palestina after Phillistia which is a figure in the Hebrew bible. The reason I am explaining this is because the Jews have had a very long and ancient connection with the land of present day Israel, it is very sacred to these people, and it has historically always been their land. The Jewish people have struggled all throughout history, not to mention WW2 holocaust genocide. That's why I, perhaps irrationally, sometimes feel that it is antisemitic to stop these people in living in a land that was technically historically theirs that they were taken away from in ancient times. When Israel became a state in 1948, they were immediately attacked on the FIRST day by Palestinians throwing an air missile.

Many Palestinians, such as the Hamas, feel VERY strongly about Israel and will not stop until Israel is gone, and they are supported by Islamic countries in their fight against Israel. If Israel stops defending themselves, if they stop receiving aid, they will lose their land and they will experience the murder of their people.
Peace has tried to be done, Palestine really doesn't wish to negotiate if it means Israel won't go away.

Take for example the now deceased Ariel Sharon, former Prime Minister of Israel. He tried to cooperate with Palestine and gave them more land, known as Gaza. This land is now a big area of violence, where the Hamas send missiles across to Israel. It's very hard to cooperate with Palestinian groups such as Hamas, who have said they will stop at nothing until they wipe out the state of Israel.

Israel is one of the only few democratic countries in the Middle East offering suffrage for all citizens (INCLUDING their Palestinian citizens). I personally have not been to Israel but many of my friends have as well as my mother, with no apartheid that they have ever observed. Palestinian citizens can attend university, can vote, can do anything Israeli citizens have the right to do.

Personally, I see a never ending conflict because Israel wants to exist and Palestine wants Israel to go away. There's nothing to negotiate with such polar opposite views that both parties feel extremely strong and deep about.

Oh geez, we're gonna go there. Alright, lemme start alllll over, from the beginning.

When I say I'm anti-Isreal, I mean I don't support their military or government. They’re disgusting racists who mistreat Israeli Jewish folks of color in addition to treating Palestinians with a shocking amount of violence and systematic oppression. Israel’s government is run by right-wing religious extremists who need to be ousted if they ever want to end the mess.

Now on to the main problem: Zionism. Zionism is a European colonial endeavor that sought to deprive and demean the native population of Palestine of land and dignity and continues to do so.

Zionism was a product of European colonialism. It was birthed during a time when Europeans were colonizing the majority of the world, and regardless of what one thinks about the underlying socialist implications of Zionism, it was inherently racist. How? I gotcha, lemme explain.

Nineteenth century colonialism sought to transplant European ideals in so-called "backward" nations around the world, with no regard to the native populations. The Arabs of Palestine were seen as backward, in European terms. So yes, the whole Zionist tag-line of "A people without a land for a land without people," is colonist language and disregards the native populations of Palestine. Zionists, in European eyes, were seen as establishing western ideals in the Orient.(Psst, if the results today don't show it, it went very badly.)

Chaim Weizmann(the Zionist leader at the time) even states in this quote, to prove my point:

"It seems as if God has covered the soil of Palestine with rocks and marshes and sand, so that its beauty can only be brought out by those who love it and will devote their lives to healing its wounds."

He says this as if the Arabs of Palestine weren’t even there because he sees them as lessers, nonhumans. Similar to how colonists spoke of Native Americans before, in fact, to make the connection. Edward Said also explains this in The Question of Palestine:

"His language [Weizmann] was shot through with the rhetoric of voluntarism, with an ideology of will and new blood that appropriated for Zionism a great deal of the language (and later the policies) of European colonialists attempting to deal with native backwardness."

Also, a wake up call to all the ahistorical drones defending Israel, touting the myth that "it just wanted peace" in 1948 but all the "evil Arabs" invaded...

The ethnic cleansing of Palestine began before the 1948 war. There are three especially important massacres that the Zionist gangs carried out against Palestinians in that period. These massacres were not a coincidence, they were not a "reality of war", they were calculated and designed to instill terror in the Palestinian population, and as a result, drive as many to flee their lands as possible.

The Deir Yassin Massacre, in which over 107 unarmed civilians were murdered with cold blood, happened in April 1948. The Tantura Massacre, in the north, after the fall of Haifa. It resulted in over two hundred and forty Palestinian deaths. When did this happen? April 1948.

The Arab-Israeli war began in May 1948. These massacres happened before the war even started. They were in fact one of the main reasons for the intervention of the Arab armies in the first place. The third massacre, is the Al-Dawayima Massacre, in the middle regions of Palestine. It resulted in over four hundred and fifty Palestinian deaths. two hundred and eighty men, and the rest women and children. This happened in October the same year. Notice that these areas were chosen specifically in every populated region, so that the news travels as fast as possible to every Palestinian.

The Zionists would let a few children "escape" to tell everyone about the massacres. There is evidence of rape and mutilation of corpses. These three massacres created so much terror, that many Palestinians abandoned their lands and hoped to seek refuge in territories under Arab control. Those who did not move, were of course, removed by force eventually. This is the birth of the state of Israel. And no amount of Green energy initiatives and Gay Pride parades can cover up the blood seeping from its very roots.

So now that we got the basic stuff out of the way, let's dwell into the deeper things.

Let's start by pointing out that Israel has only existed for only near seventy years. That actually isn’t a very long time, hell, I've even got family members still living who're older than that, and even folks reading this might as well. Although Zionist settlement in Palestine began in as early as the 1880s, in 1946, two years before Israel was fully established, Jewish folks in Palestine amounted to only about thirty two percent of the population. Despite that fact, when Israel was created, the Jewish population was awarded with 56% of the land from Palestine, and a disproportionate portion of fertile land and natural resources. What has occurred since the establishment of Israel is called ethnic cleansing, and has created a situation where some nine million Palestinians are refugees or internally displaced persons, where thousands upon thousands have been killed, and where the Palestinian people are still denied self-determination, freedom of movement, equal legal status, and other basic human rights by the Israeli government.

Israel has been able to maintain and expand its settler-colonial project (or, as put by apologists, "modernizing their people") in Palestine thanks to aid from the United States government, among others. An extremely conservative estimate of US aid to Israel thus far is a hundred and twenty three billion dollars, and the US currently gives Israel about three billion per year, as well as hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid, free or discounted weaponry, and research agreements which spur Israel’s modernization. Because surprise surprise, imperialist superpowers help one another.

...and so what happens to the Palestinians?

Palestine is an illegally occupied country, and Israel is the occupying force. Under international law, Israel - as the occupying power - has the legal and ethical obligation to protect its occupied Palestinian population, and does not have the "self-defense." International law also affirms the right of occupied people (or the Palestinians in this case) to resist occupation - including the right to armed resistance against the occupying power.

Also, prior to the establishment of Israel in 1948, Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in relative harmony within Palestine. While there are absolutely fundamentalist groups within the Middle East generally, and even within Palestine itself (in far, far less numbers than the US media would have you believe), fundamentalism is neither the sole domain of Islam or even necessarily religious in origin and intent. Fundamentalism is a political issue - perpetuating right-wing ideologies like nationalism, racism, xenophobia, and control over the life and choices of others by cloaking these more easily identifiable methods of hate in religious doctrine. Equating fundamentalist outliers with the whole of a population is basically like saying that every single Christian in the world is an active participant of the Westboro Baptist Church.

In fact, the Palestinian resistance group called Hamas is reacting to this fundamentalism itself - the Zionist interpretation of Jewish fundamentalism (and to be clear, this is not representative of Jewish folks or Judaism in the least, as I've clarified). Zionism is a right-wing, settler-colonial, fundamentally racist ideology which necessitates ethnic cleansing to establish a state for the Jewish people, in which only Jews have full rights of citizenship and where at least one hundred and fifty Jewish-only settlements currently exist on Palestinian land. A Jewish person whose family has lived in another country for centuries can move to Israel, and the moment they step off the plane they receive full citizenship rights. Meanwhile, a Palestinian whose family has always lived in Palestine is treated as a second-class citizen in Israel.

Hamas is fighting with homemade rockets which don’t have warheads or guidance systems. They fire mostly from Gaza, a one hundred and thirty nine square mile patch of land with a population of almost two million (nearly half of which is children). There is no place Hamas could fire rockets from in Gaza that is not densely populated, The allegations of human shields and storing weapons in schools are false and majorly misrepresented, respectively. In the two instances where weapons were found at UNRWA schools, both times the schools were abandoned - which can hardly be used as evidence that Hamas stores weapons in the occupied schools being bombed.

Israel has full military control of Gaza. Israel has plundered Palestine’s natural resources, and Israeli settlers have burned an estimated eight hundred thousand olive trees, which Palestinian farmers depend on to live. Specifically because of Israel’s control and treatment of Palestinian land and people, the UN has stated that, "Gaza will not be livable by 2020."

The people of Gaza are facing not extinction, but termination at the hands of Israel. Hamas has offered a ten year truce provided Israel meets ten pretty basic demands - many of which the international community has been calling for for decades now. They are:

  • Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
  • Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
  • Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
  • Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
  • Increasing the permitted fishing zone to ten kilometers.
  • Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
  • International forces on the borders.
  • Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
  • Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
  • Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

And unlike Israel, Palestine actually has a much better record of honoring their truces.

Palestinians want basic human rights. They want to be able to live in the land that they live in. They want to be able to live. Around a thousand Palestinians have been killed in this most recent round of Israeli aggression, thousands more have been injured without the needed medical supplies to tend their wounds, and tens of thousands have been displaced.

I repeat from before: This is not self-defense on Israel’s part, it is ethnic cleansing.

Here's a little infodump: [x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x][x]

Also, here's a little fun fact: There are about a hundred and eighty nine thousand Holocaust survivors living in Israel. Forty five thousand Israeli holocaust survivors live below the poverty line. What the Israeli government gives their survivors is not sufficient for them to live on. Just a little thing to throw out there.

Sources on that: [x][x]
 
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OMGGGG I have 5 cumulative final exams starting in 4 days I literally cannot sit and reply to that LOL. I'll get back to you on December 15!


Like I said this is a very controversial topic :p I see what you're saying, I promise! I see good points from both sides personally.
I'm not talking to you in any arrogant or aggressive tone so I hope you don't with me! I'm simply stating how I think and feel.
 
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OMGGGG I have 5 cumulative final exams starting in 4 days I literally cannot sit and reply to that LOL. I'll get back to you on December 15!


Like I said this is a very controversial topic :p I see what you're saying, I promise! I see good points from both sides personally.
I'm not talking to you in any arrogant or aggressive tone so I hope you don't with me! I'm simply stating how I think and feel.

If this thread's even still open by then, lol. But yeah, good luck with the exams.
 
Short answer: I support his decision recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

Congress already passed a law about this in the 1990's iirc. But every President since then, Dem or Repub, has cited a National Security exemption from following its mandate (until now).
 
The violence and settler-colonization programs of the Israeli State are not and will never be okay or necessary, nor is denunciation of the Israeli State inherently an attack on Jewish citizens of Israel. What the Israeli State is doing to the increasingly confined Palestinian communities in terms of military violence and resource deprivation are not self-defense tactics. It’s the victimization of a vulnerable and dependent population. But yes, it’s important to recognize zionism as settler-colonialism and to realise that this is the problem, not jewish people or communities.

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(I was hoping for a post merge there, but I guess I'm too late, lol)

I think there is more violence towards Jews from Palestinians than from Jews to Pelestinians. If you look at Palestinian media, you can find kids on TV saying they want to kill the Jews. Palestinians and their government have made it very clear that they want to kill ALL the Jews and push the Israelites into the sea. Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state many times, every single time the Palestinians denied it and attacked Israel. The occupation of Palestine is actually legal under international law (but the USA's occupation of Hawai’i isn't), because Israel had to occupy it for their safety. The entire area of the West Bank (I think Judea and Samaria is a more accurate name) belonged to the Jews before the destruction of the second temple, it's the most Jewish area of Israel (by history, not by population). Palestinians don't even deserve their own state. Before the Islamic Caliphate invaded in the 600s (I think it was 600s) there had not been a single Arab born in Jerusalem or probably all of Israel. In Gaza after Egypt invaded and Israel lost control and abandoned the settlements, the Palestinians voted Hamas into power (a terrorist organization). If you vote some terrorist organization into power, you shouldn't have a country.

People think the Israeli checkpoints make Palestinians less free, even though Israel is just protecting itself from terrorists, Palestinians can still pass through, Israelis are the ones who can't pass through because they know they'll probably get killed by Palestinians. By the way Palestinians aren't a real thing, Palestinian leaders made it up as an excuse for what they want and brainwashed the Arab population with it. In fact, before the idea of "Palestinian" people was made up, the Arabs in Palestine said they were nothing but Southern Syrians. Jews accepted anything for their own country in Israel, the British even once gave the Jews 20% of the land and the "Palestinians" 80%, the Jews accepted it because they'd accept anything, but the "Palestinians" denied it because nothing is enough for them until all the Jews are dead.

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Oh also, Israel ships a whole bunch of food to Gaza all the time so the "Palestinians" can eat, they could starve them if they wanted to, but they don't. If the "Palestinians" were in Israel and the Jews were in Palestine and Gaza, I guarantee the "Palestinians" would be starving the Jews and having another Holocaust.
 
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They’re disgusting racists who mistreat Israeli Jewish folks of color in addition to treating Palestinians with a shocking amount of violence and systematic oppression. Israel’s government is run by right-wing religious extremists who need to be ousted if they ever want to end the mess.
Mistreat Jewish folks of color? Hmm, that's weird especially since all Jews are people of color. Most Jews look light skinned because when they were kicked out of their own land and were in Europe for almost 2,000 years, they mixed with the Europeans. I think all Jews know that if they were 100% Jewish they would have dark skin.

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Now on to the main problem: Zionism. Zionism is a European colonial endeavor that sought to deprive and demean the native population of Palestine of land and dignity and continues to do so.
That's basically saying that Jews want to deprive themselves. Jews are the native population of Palestine. I don't think West Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel, because it makes way more sense for East Jerusalem to be the capital. Especially because that's where the Jewish temples were and where the Old City (the real Jerusalem) is.

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Nineteenth century colonialism sought to transplant European ideals in so-called "backward" nations around the world, with no regard to the native populations. The Arabs of Palestine were seen as backward, in European terms. So yes, the whole Zionist tag-line of "A people without a land for a land without people," is colonist language and disregards the native populations of Palestine. Zionists, in European eyes, were seen as establishing western ideals in the Orient.(Psst, if the results today don't show it, it went very badly.)
I agree that Israel is a product of European colonization. Israel is too western and European style now. I'd rather Israel be an eastern style Jewish kingdom, like it used to be thousands of years ago. The Jews are the native people of Palestine though, but even though they are, to me Israel doesn't seem very Jewish. I don't like the modern west (I like the ancient west better), it's too Christian and stuff, I'd rather people still believe in the ancient native religions, like Greek mythology (which a small group of people still believe in). I think it would be more interesting. Zionism though is actually just the idea that Jews should move back to Israel, which doing that isn't bad itself, but they brought the west with them, something that doesn't belong in Israel, whether it's ancient or modern west.

I am glad though that the British did colonize and create Israel. I think the government like anywhere else is bad but it's definatly the BEST in the Middle East.

Everyone says Israel is an apartheid state but black South Africans who have lived through apartheid have confirmed that it's not.

Israel is the most democratic country in the Middle East. People focus on it so much and say they violate human rights but TAKE A LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAN WHO DO MUCH WORSE.

Israel gives freedom of religion to everyone, and gives everyone equal rights, but Palestinian leaders brainwash the Palestinians and the rest of the world and make them think that Israel is evil.

I really wouldn't be surprised if there's another holocaust soon.
 
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Oh look now the Hamas leader is calling for a new intifada this is why Palestinians shouldn't have their own state.
 
#FreePalestine :))))) and **** trump lol
 
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I was going to assume you read everything I wrote, but I suppose that'd be a no because you repeated things to me I've already covered in both of your posts. Or... maybe it's just persistence... Anyways, let's go on.

I agree that Israel is a product of European colonization. Israel is too western and European style now. I'd rather Israel be an eastern style Jewish kingdom, like it used to be thousands of years ago. The Jews are the native people of Palestine though, but even though they are, to me Israel doesn't seem very Jewish. I don't like the modern west (I like the ancient west better), it's too Christian and stuff, I'd rather people still believe in the ancient native religions, like Greek mythology (which a small group of people still believe in). I think it would be more interesting.

Speaking of repeats though, I literally went through the whole history of Israel in my last post. The statement of Jewish people being native to Palestine is false, if I gotta make it short, here.

Zionism though is actually just the idea that Jews should move back to Israel, which doing that isn't bad itself, but they brought the west with them, something that doesn't belong in Israel, whether it's ancient or modern west.

Yikes, you have an extremely misguided view on Zionism. There's absolutely nothing excusable for a notion that involves war and ethnic cleansing, I don't know why you would even attempt to spin it into something so simplified and mask it as something that's okay. You know what it means to justify colonialism, right? That means you're giving the "OK" to dispossession of the Palestinian people through land confiscation, forced exile, and massacres. Obviously not good.

I am glad though that the British did colonize and create Israel. I think the government like anywhere else is bad but it's definatly the BEST in the Middle East.

So... you're glad about the whole mass murdering process and erasure of people from their homeland...
Nice apologism, I guess?

Everyone says Israel is an apartheid state but black South Africans who have lived through apartheid have confirmed that it's not.

First of all, cite that.
Second of all, even if that's true, what they say doesn't matter because apartheid is apartheid even if some people deny it is. Anyone can deny something that's real, just look at the flat earth people.

To be serious, though, this "apartheid Israel" isn't some political slogan folks are slinging around, it's a legitimate reality. Around 70 per cent of all towns within Israel - Palestinian land occupied since 1948 - are "for Jews only"; the state's Arab citizens are banned from living therein. This has been the sustained policy since the establishment of the State of Israel on Palestinian land. The means and methods may have changed, but Israel’s goal has not; establishing "Arab-free" towns, which are solely for those who have Jewish ethnicity, is the official intention. This is no ordinary discrimination in favor of one group of citizens; this is Apartheid itself. Despite this obvious fact, it is an issue which the international community would rather not address and so Israel continues to get away with it.

The so-called Israel Land Authority manages 94 per cent of the 1948 Palestinian lands on behalf of three main "owners": First, the State of Israel, which claims ownership of 69 per cent of the 1948 land that was inherited from the British Mandate Government, seized because it was alleged that it had no owners or was simply confiscated. The second "owner" is the Development Authority, which lays claim to 12 per cent of the land that was handed over by the protector of properties belonging to "absentees"; in other words, properties that belong to ethnically-cleansed Palestinians. The third is the Jewish National Fund, which "owns" 13 per cent of the land. A small percentage of the JNF land was seized or purchased by the fund prior to the creation of the State of Israel. However, most consists of land that belonged to Palestinians driven from their homes in 1948 which was then given to the JNF as a gift by the government of Israel after the state was established, as part of what is known as the first million deal and the second million deal.

This one's gonna require a Google search to learn more, because the original article turned into... well... this.

But this all fits what defines apartheid, which is a government whose policies and institutions promote segregation and discrimination based on race, which is just like South Africa. This is simple. Jewish people have special rights and privileges that Palestinians are derived of. Bada boom, apartheid state.

Israel is the most democratic country in the Middle East. People focus on it so much and say they violate human rights but TAKE A LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAN WHO DO MUCH WORSE.

Who cares who does worse? This isn't some sort of pissing contest to see who can be the better of the worst countries. You're literally just saying it doesn't matter how they treat their people because it could be worse, which only ignores issues that are going on and allows them to grow and normalize. It's dismissive language.

Israel gives freedom of religion to everyone, and gives everyone equal rights, but Palestinian leaders brainwash the Palestinians and the rest of the world and make them think that Israel is evil.

Sure... even though I literally had a link that showed evidence of Israel doing dirty work such as forcing sites to fabricate propaganda and the like and popularizing them, while there's evidence of Palestinian claims from a variety of sites that're able to be traced back to one topic, you can totally say that. :rolleyes:

Mistreat Jewish folks of color? Hmm, that's weird especially since all Jews are people of color. Most Jews look light skinned because when they were kicked out of their own land and were in Europe for almost 2,000 years, they mixed with the Europeans. I think all Jews know that if they were 100% Jewish they would have dark skin.

[European] Jewishness is not read abroad as non-white, it’s read abroad as lesser white. This is literally taxonomized in scientific racism, and even with the Nazis, it was about Nordicism and "the Aryan race", subcategories of the white race.

There are ethnic Jewish folk who are not white, either by intermarriage or because the people do not come from a European group of ethnic Jewish folk. This includes most but not all Sephardic Jewish folk (some are Spanish/Italian/French/otherwise European). there are Jewish ethnic groups that originate from all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa. post-1492 Judaism also diffused into many parts of the Americas, though this happened as a result of European colonization.

Here, whiteness is defined in relation to post-1492 European colonization. Not DNA, not genetics, not an identity. Whiteness is property, whiteness is how you are positioned relative to this system. White Jewish folk have and continue to participate and benefit from post-1492 European colonization. Although some, and probably most of this participation, comes from fleeing antisemitism, that doesn’t excuse it.

Consider:


What's now happening is that a lot of people have gotten together and decided that they aren't white. A lot of this is really closely tied to Zionism, as there’s this ideology of "all Jewish people are middle eastern" which is simply not true(I even went over this in my previous post, again). Middle eastern Jewish folks are middle eastern. Judaism and the Jewish people have origins in the middle east, but saying that all Jewish people are middle eastern obscures the very real power that European Jewish people have over middle eastern/otherwise non-European ones.

From what I've also been told by many folks down in the Jewish communities(that's where I'm getting this all from, by the way), if there's no white Jewish people, what is there? Just brown Jewish dude here and slightly lighter brown Jewish guy over there? That completely disables any discussion on power dynamics within Jewish communities by framing it as if they're all at an equal ground with power and white supremacy when that is clearly and historically not the case.

Obviously no matter what, Jewish people of all kinds face antisemitism. This is undeniable and I'm not rejecting that notion at all, and that was never a suggestion I'd dare to make.

But the tools and language of racism have been used in constructing modern antisemitism, and fundamentally white Jewish people have historically and continue to benefit from antiblackness, racism, and white supremacy... hence how the whole square one comment I made on the government being "disgusting racists who mistreat Israeli Jewish folks of color" ties in to all of this.
 
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israel lowkey a bunch of ****s to the country of my ethnicity but i do enjoy seeing them be manipulated for the benefit of the united states i guess
 
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