When do you think a joke crosses the line?

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

You people need some life in you. I swear even Fawlty Towers could be deemed offensive these days.

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What's so wrong w trying to be considerate though??? Most people here are just saying pretty common sense things (rape jokes, racist jokes, etc.). What exactly does having some life mean? To make offensive jokes? If you hang out w people who enjoy those types of jokes then okay. But why look down on people who are uncomfortable w those types of jokes?

And just because there will always be rude people doesn't make it okay to be rude.......

Hyoon said:

What's so wrong w trying to be considerate though??? [...] But why look down on people who are uncomfortable w those types of jokes?

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There's nothing wrong with it nor am I looking down on people. If you want to not cause offence to everyone around you, good, that's to be expected, but if someone wants to crack a dodgy joke (even if it's not funny), it's best not to get triggered. Pick your friends selectively, don't watch TV shows that may offend etc.

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

but if someone wants to crack a dodgy joke (even if it's not funny), it's best not to get triggered.

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People don't... choose to be traumatized.

You can choose to not let a certain remark effect you in the long run but for one it's especially difficult if it's a trigger that brings forth past trauma(s), and secondly you can't choose your initial reaction. Nobody can choose to have being totally unaffected be their first response - that is entirely impossible for everyone.

Any joke where the punchline is basically just to make fun of a marginalized group of people, or any joke that makes fun of really horrendous experiences that a lot of people have experienced and can easily give people flashbacks.

I'm not against offensive humour where the joke is that there is a lot of swearing or adult themes are in the joke, and I think there can be a time and a place for humour about dark subject matter as long as the jokes are meant to frame the dark subjects as bad and not good and aren't presented in a way that has an extremely high chance of giving flashbacks to many audience members because it's a common experience (I.E., rape is extremely common and so joking about it has a high chance of giving flashbacks to an audience member), although preferably if the comedian has actually experienced the dark subject matter first hand (for example, I sometimes joke about things related to severe mental illness, which can sometimes make the jokes a little dark, but I've experienced severe mental illness first hand, so it's coming from a place of observing real life mental illness experiences, and not just making fun of mentally ill people from a place of looking down on them).

I think where I draw the line is humour where 1. Certain (usually marginalized) people are excluded from the joke in order for other people to find it funny (like a homophobic joke that is funny to a straight audience but makes gay people feel excluded), or 2. The joke is more likely to hurt people than to make them laugh (like rape jokes, or bigoted jokes that make bigots feel more justified in hating the groups that they hurt)

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

You people need some life in you. I swear even Fawlty Towers could be deemed offensive these days.

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It?s true anything can be offensive, but it shouldn?t really be a problem for the average person. Just make ?offensive? jokes in the right company. That shouldn?t really be to hard. For example, no one makes racist jokes in front of people they just met. That?d just be weird. There?s a certain way we act when we?re etting to know someone. Sure, sometimes you slip up. That?s okay. We?re only human. So, when you do slip up & see you made someone uncomfortable, just apologize and avoid such jokes around them in the future. It really just boils down to don?t be a jerk.

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

You people need some life in you. I swear even Fawlty Towers could be deemed offensive these days.

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You mean the n-word episode? Well it was from another time and that character is supposed to be a slur lol.

And to explain further I mean that episode wasn't really targeting people, and I love Fawlty Towers. What I meant was I wouldn't like stand on the street and joke about poc traits and such stuff. You need to calm bro And if I was at like, a meeting for poc persons or discussed situations for those I wouldn't really show them that episode for example. For that matter I think it's wrong to censor shows, explain the context and time to people watching instead.

Talking about TV shows, if there is one thing I can't stand if they are too PC or try to be intelligent humour that appeal to a too targeted, "modern" audience.

So yeah context and people are important, but yeah I don't think most of you would be like.. "lol rape is awesome" or those dumb joke comments, that's what I was trying to come down to. As for FT, that series is old and the Major is supposed to not be modern or cool at all, so yeah (for one example). If it's a comedy series and it can be handled well, then it's another thing.

I know this might not be what it means here, but...

When my father passed away around this time last year and we had a funeral, my younger sister tried a joke about HIM, him, our father in the coffin in front of us right that moment (!!!), and, and, this was terrible, but it tossed me into the big wave of giggling...!!! That was sort of crossing the line..
I know why she tried that. She tried the joke because I was bawling my eyes out, unable to stop crying like craze that was almost starting to make spasm.

Whenever I remember this joke, it makes me both cry and smile. That was obviously crossing-a-line type of joke, I guess.

I think anything can work as a joke in the right circumstance. I joke about suicide a lot, but I used to be suicidal, so I don't think it's very offensive? Of course I don't just go around saying you should kill yourself, but I often include it in convos. I think this post sums it up well:

Arize said:

I think for me, it's about intent. I really like some offensive jokes if they're clever and maybe makes fun of stereotypes. For example, I'm Asian and I don't get offended if someone makes a joke about my eyes or whatever, in fact most of the time, I'm the one making jokes about myself. But if the person is actually saying the joke and obviously has genuine bias or hate towards the object of their joke, then that isn't funny at all. Also jokes about actual people is bullying unless they are in on the joke and don't mind.

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When it's hate and bigotry disguised as jokes. Can't stand people who think saying "it's just a joke" makes everything alright.

Sheila said:

You mean the n-word episode?

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Episode 6 - "The Germans"
I guess you could say it's well-known for that scene, but I'd say John's "don't mention the war" outshines it. "I speak English" is also a great part of the episode too. Good stuff all round.

I agree with everything else you said.

Really racist jokes, like incredibly racist that it sounds almost serious. Also innapropriate jokes about minors, and stuff like that. I won't go into it, but I had a friend make a joke like that and I asked them multiple times if they were joking, and eventually they said it was just "dark humor" but it scared me so bad, that I was really shaken after, and although it was a "joke" it was badly executed, and I still don't take it that way.

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

There's nothing wrong with it nor am I looking down on people. If you want to not cause offence to everyone around you, good, that's to be expected, but if someone wants to crack a dodgy joke (even if it's not funny), it's best not to get triggered. Pick your friends selectively, don't watch TV shows that may offend etc.

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Okay but you just told these people here they need to have some life implying what...? They're not as fun? They're missing out? It sounds a little judgmental.

And I mean sure yeah, it's best not to get triggered of freakin' course... But people aren't choosing to be triggered because it's soooo much fun???? As someone else has pointed out, you can choose to ignore something, but that initial reaction is something you can't control. You can't tell people to not be effected by their own trauma.

When they make fun of religion or people with disabilities. Or when they actually encourage intolerance.

it depends on who is telling the joke sometimes. i can handle a joke about women when its another woman telling it, but when its a man, 99% of the time he's a nasty bigot and i want nothing to do with that. like, sure, the woman cam be an ass as well, but its just... different, it feels more degrading coming from someone who has systematically opressed the object of the joke for centuries if you feel me lol
one type of jokes ill never accept are rape jokes. joke about everything else and ill just make a face or ignore it, but i get so mad when people joke about rape, i literally went as far as actuaully punching someone for one. oops
generally any jokes that perpetuate hate and discrimination suck
also lgbt jokes tend to get to me and actually hurt since it's more personal

I've never heard a joke that I thought went too far, so idk

Hyoon said:

You can't tell people to not be effected by their own trauma.

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But what trauma? You're speaking as if most people have been to Auschwitz and back... and not as tourists. Being treated with less respect than others is not a traumatic experience.

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

But what trauma? You're speaking as if most people have been to Auschwitz and back... and not as tourists. Being treated with less respect than others is not a traumatic experience.

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It can be though? Being abused (including just verbally), discriminated against, or bullied can absolutely traumatize someone. If you think soldiers are the only people who can suffer from trauma you are very, very wrong.

Neglect is also another thing that has a very high chance of causing trauma and that's far from fighting in a war.

I really wish you'd stop talking about mental health issues like this because it's clear you have done no research on the matter.

gyro said:

I really wish you'd stop talking about mental health issues like this because it's clear you have done no research on the matter.

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Well... no, I haven't done research on the matter. Have you? I guess in some severe cases, sure, people will be somewhat traumatised, but very rarely. It's more a case of "I want to avoid this person" rather than a more traumatic "I can't leave the house today because I might get my neck snapped".

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

Well... no, I haven't done research on the matter. Have you? I guess in some severe cases, sure, people will be somewhat traumatised, but very rarely. It's more a case of "I want to avoid this person" rather than a more traumatic "I can't leave the house today because I might get my neck snapped".

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oh yikes
can you at least open wikipedia or something before you write these kinds of things

obviously someone saying one offensive joke once doesn't have a high chance of traumatizing someone who was perfectly fine before hearing it but jokes arent harmless and it can be traumatizing or retraumatizing to hear Ultra Funny Jokes That WILL Trigger All The Overly Offended People LOL xD and even if it werent it's still not nice to hear "jokes" about how you should die or whatever.
like you cant just say that people shouldnt be affected by your actions or what you say.

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and just because youre ignorant doesnt mean everyone else is. i'm pretty sure gyro has mentioned dealing with traumatic things in this thread lol

AnimalCrossingPerson said:

Well... no, I haven't done research on the matter. Have you? I guess in some severe cases, sure, people will be somewhat traumatised, but very rarely. It's more a case of "I want to avoid this person" rather than a more traumatic "I can't leave the house today because I might get my neck snapped".

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Yes I have! I'm also someone who suffers from trauma with first hand experience, which not only gives me the upper hand here but has also given me even more incentive to do my research on both what causes trauma and what trauma can cause!

It's absolutely not a rare case at all and it is an asinine claim that victims of bullying/abuse don't fear for their lives at some point. It's especially apparent in LGBT people, people of colour, and people of certain religious groups. Speaking from a personal standpoint I've lived in fear of literally just looking at other men in case of being perceived as predatory and "lol gay men are pedos" "lol gay men are creeps who want to r*pe other men" jokes absolutely did not help. The sad part is this isn't even a crazy reaction considering the amount of violence gay men/boys face from straight men/boys every day. I still get scared being nice to men in person sometimes. That fear is trauma and is a pretty universal LGBT experience.

On another note for an even longer time (most of my school years to be exact) I told people I was white because 90% of the time I said otherwise I was asked if I had a bomb, if I was a terrorist, if I carry a knife, etc and once again, "brown people = terrorists" jokes are part of the blame for this.

Jokes don't have a very high chance to cause trauma themselves but they can absolutely both partake in it (depending on the severity, how often they're made at their target, things like that) and they can definitely trigger someone's already-there trauma.

To admit you haven't done your research and then make claims like this is absurd and I don't want to discuss this further with you, and I suggest you stop discussing it with anyone else as well. I also suggest you stop using "triggered" when you mean "offended, upset, angry, mad" because "triggered" is 100% a mental illness term that deals mostly with trauma which, as you said yourself, is a topic you don't have much experience in.