What if they aren't currently on medical treatment or can't afford it? Some aren't at that "stage" yet.
Then they aren't breaking any laws I don't think?
Transgender People No Longer Allowed to Enlist - Thoughts?
- Thread starter lumenue
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What if they aren't currently on medical treatment or can't afford it? Some aren't at that "stage" yet.
Then they aren't breaking any laws I don't think?
disgusting and bad, end of story
and **** anyone defending this transphobic bull**** that only serves to further erode trans people's societal worth while channeling any costs to them into building a ****ing wall that doesn't need to exist, or some other garbage ass worthless ****
and **** anyone defending this transphobic bull**** that only serves to further erode trans people's societal worth while channeling any costs to them into building a ****ing wall that doesn't need to exist, or some other garbage ass worthless ****
yay double post~!
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Should the government and military be held liable to pay for that?
Like I previously said, the military has a very important job to do and it must be done without compromise. It is not the place for social experimentation.
Fa11enInsanity
gone forever
I disagree with this decision. As Americans and people we are all equal no matter what race we are or what gender we choose to be identified as. If someone chooses to serve, they do it for the pride of their country. No one should be suppressed to do something so honorable... it's the same reason why women in the past disguised themselves as men so that they can go to war and be equal as men. It's disgusting how disrespectful this man is. He doesn't care about his country, he just wants to meme on Twitter and supposedly make America "great again" in which I'm still waiting to see happen.
Nothing gets your point across like profanity does.
Fearmongering is disgusting.
A study from the RAND Corporation, conducted in June of 2016, estimated that there were between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender active-duty service members (out of 1.3 million overall members), and noted that not all of them would seek treatment related to gender transitioning (because transgenderism does not necessarily mean you want to physically alter yourself, something I honestly thought ya'll would know).
The study also estimated that the cost associated with medical care for gender transition would only increase military health care expenditures by between $2.4 million and $8.4 million each year, an increase of between 0.04 and 0.13 percent.
So, this so-called "tremendous" and "burdening" financial difficulty is horse dump. It was completely uncalled for, and the only other explaination, and the most obvious, is that he's completely and utterly transphobic, and the truly non-existent financial difficulty was a good excuse for it.
A study from the RAND Corporation, conducted in June of 2016, estimated that there were between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender active-duty service members (out of 1.3 million overall members), and noted that not all of them would seek treatment related to gender transitioning (because transgenderism does not necessarily mean you want to physically alter yourself, something I honestly thought ya'll would know).
The study also estimated that the cost associated with medical care for gender transition would only increase military health care expenditures by between $2.4 million and $8.4 million each year, an increase of between 0.04 and 0.13 percent.
So, this so-called "tremendous" and "burdening" financial difficulty is horse dump. It was completely uncalled for, and the only other explaination, and the most obvious, is that he's completely and utterly transphobic, and the truly non-existent financial difficulty was a good excuse for it.
I've long since stopped giving a **** about trying to get any point across to people that clearly won't listen
Goshi
Engineer TF2 Main
I already despise the military to an almost unspeakable level so for me personally it's ineffective, but what this is is a middle finger to those trans folk who have/are enlisted and going through all of this crap only to have the nation they believe they're fighting for repay them by turning its back on them. It's an act of discrimination based on fearmongering and stereotyping and generalizations and misinformation. Being trans isn't a handicap, someone who is trans can execute their job to the fullest capability.
What all of this is actually showing that I'm concerned about is how easily certain groups can be removed from doing certain things as long as there's some sort of excuse to back it up. Like, this is just the first step, I feel, to an ongoing trip of excluding X minority from Y because the government can. We were edging towards progress a bit, but with this possibility in mind we're gonna probably be set back a lot.
Also, this. Also, let's not forget that they spend more on viagra for people in the military, which is useless, but nobody's getting up in arms about that, of course.
Like, since medical costs would only rise from $2.4 to $8 million if we allocated to pay for all trans soldiers medical needs that's all negligible pocket change considering how our military budget is upwards of $600 billion dollars as is, and we spend $84 million annually on Viagra and similar drugs for vets and on duty soldiers. Trans soldiers are not that expensive and additionally are a minority group in the military. There's no excuse.
If Trump's concern is surgery costs and hormone treatments, stop funding surgery and hormones.(And Viagra while you're at it.
) Denying an entire group on the other hand isn't the correct notion.
What all of this is actually showing that I'm concerned about is how easily certain groups can be removed from doing certain things as long as there's some sort of excuse to back it up. Like, this is just the first step, I feel, to an ongoing trip of excluding X minority from Y because the government can. We were edging towards progress a bit, but with this possibility in mind we're gonna probably be set back a lot.
Also, this. Also, let's not forget that they spend more on viagra for people in the military, which is useless, but nobody's getting up in arms about that, of course.
Like, since medical costs would only rise from $2.4 to $8 million if we allocated to pay for all trans soldiers medical needs that's all negligible pocket change considering how our military budget is upwards of $600 billion dollars as is, and we spend $84 million annually on Viagra and similar drugs for vets and on duty soldiers. Trans soldiers are not that expensive and additionally are a minority group in the military. There's no excuse.
If Trump's concern is surgery costs and hormone treatments, stop funding surgery and hormones.(And Viagra while you're at it.
) Denying an entire group on the other hand isn't the correct notion.
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Nuclear Bingo
Senior Member
I think it's viewed as a liability not a disability in this case
I don't support it nor the way he addressed this and how insensitive he was with his choice of words. As if trans people are worthless, when they should be honored that a person their country discriminates so highly would still fight for it in the first place. Bet that would change in a heartbeat if all our soldiers were dying and we were scarce but it shouldn't have to come to that.
- - - Post Merge - - -
This. And they already **** everyone with care and the wages, i don't see why they'd exclude anyonw particular because they treat every soldier like a broken toy when they can't fight anymore so what's the difference with someone with trans? This is the same military that used to give cocaine and meth to our soldiers but now suddenly they care about who enlists when they're all just expendable anyways to begin with.
- - - Post Merge - - -
I already despise the military to an almost unspeakable level so for me personally it's ineffective, but what this is is a middle finger to those trans folk who have/are enlisted and going through all of this crap only to have the nation they believe they're fighting for repay them by turning its back on them. It's an act of discrimination based on fearmongering and stereotyping and generalizations and misinformation. Being trans isn't a handicap, someone who is trans can execute their job to the fullest capability.
What all of this is actually showing that I'm concerned about is how easily certain groups can be removed from doing certain things as long as there's some sort of excuse to back it up. Like, this is just the first step, I feel, to an ongoing trip of excluding X minority from Y because the government can. We were edging towards progress a bit, but with this possibility in mind we're gonna probably be set back a lot.
Also, this. Also, let's not forget that they spend more on viagra for people in the military, which is useless, but nobody's getting up in arms about that, of course.
Like, since medical costs would only rise from $2.4 to $8 million if we allocated to pay for all trans soldiers medical needs that's all negligible pocket change considering how our military budget is upwards of $600 billion dollars as is, and we spend $84 million annually on Viagra and similar drugs for vets and on duty soldiers. Trans soldiers are not that expensive and additionally are a minority group in the military. There's no excuse.
If Trump's concern is surgery costs and hormone treatments, stop funding surgery and hormones.(And Viagra while you're at it.
This. And they already **** everyone with care and the wages, i don't see why they'd exclude anyonw particular because they treat every soldier like a broken toy when they can't fight anymore so what's the difference with someone with trans? This is the same military that used to give cocaine and meth to our soldiers but now suddenly they care about who enlists when they're all just expendable anyways to begin with.
What positives are there to allowing trans people into the military?
You don't know what it's like. You don't want to be different, you want to be the same as everyone else. Diversity≠Cohesion. When you're out in the field training for months on end so far from everyone you love, it gets rough. I've seen Marines get in fights over not listening to orders. Marines have died training. If you don't have your head in the fight, people can and will die. If you're confused on what gender you are, you are going to be combat ineffective and everyone is going to hate you for it.
Yet again we have people with no interest in serving in the military deciding on how it should be and who it should accept.
You don't know what it's like. You don't want to be different, you want to be the same as everyone else. Diversity≠Cohesion. When you're out in the field training for months on end so far from everyone you love, it gets rough. I've seen Marines get in fights over not listening to orders. Marines have died training. If you don't have your head in the fight, people can and will die. If you're confused on what gender you are, you are going to be combat ineffective and everyone is going to hate you for it.
Yet again we have people with no interest in serving in the military deciding on how it should be and who it should accept.
cocainecowboy
Senior Member
To my knowledge, transgender people weren't causing any real issues in the military prior to his ban, and the "financial burden" is a pretty useless argument considering the military spends it's money on things that are far more useless. I don't know, personally it seems most of the arguments are people showing their lack of knowledge on what being transgender means -or- outing themselves as transphobic. It's also pretty telling that Trump didn't ban hormones or reassignment surgery, he banned transgender people altogether.
edit: All of that aside, if someone is willing to put thier life on the line for a country, I'd be more than willing to chip in to something that improves their well-being.
edit: All of that aside, if someone is willing to put thier life on the line for a country, I'd be more than willing to chip in to something that improves their well-being.
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and yet here we have a cis dude telling trans people how they are going to behave when they enroll in the military as if he can fortune tell how they are going to act, all in one generalized sentence.
are you saying that for the military to be cohesive they have to have the same people who think like each other? makes sense. problem is your indirectly saying that trans people are incapable of being cohesive with others.
there are trans people out there who either already are or plan to serve in the military they are able to do so, just because you may not have met one doesn't mean they aren't out there. no one is talking about how the military should be run, everyone is talking about this problem which is this generalized ban that categorizes every trans person under a single label. a burden.
and people above have explained how money isn't the issue with this. and my post explained dysphoria, so there cant be an excuse for that.
not that long ago black men weren't allowed to serve in the army, and the excuse was that their fighting skills were inferior to whites. and i'm pretty sure the latter would also excuse it as "political correctness has no place in the military."
and in my personal opinion, this country don't deserve any minority to fight for it, because of how this country and its founders people treats them, but if a minority wants to fight for this country then i respect their decision. regardless of whether i understand or share their sentiments or not. if they want to serve this country, let them have the rights to do so.
because if this country REALLY did follow along with its motto and what its supposed to stand for, we wouldn't be having this problem and we wouldn't even be having such a president that creates this problem.
are you saying that for the military to be cohesive they have to have the same people who think like each other? makes sense. problem is your indirectly saying that trans people are incapable of being cohesive with others.
there are trans people out there who either already are or plan to serve in the military they are able to do so, just because you may not have met one doesn't mean they aren't out there. no one is talking about how the military should be run, everyone is talking about this problem which is this generalized ban that categorizes every trans person under a single label. a burden.
and people above have explained how money isn't the issue with this. and my post explained dysphoria, so there cant be an excuse for that.
not that long ago black men weren't allowed to serve in the army, and the excuse was that their fighting skills were inferior to whites. and i'm pretty sure the latter would also excuse it as "political correctness has no place in the military."
and in my personal opinion, this country don't deserve any minority to fight for it, because of how this country and its founders people treats them, but if a minority wants to fight for this country then i respect their decision. regardless of whether i understand or share their sentiments or not. if they want to serve this country, let them have the rights to do so.
because if this country REALLY did follow along with its motto and what its supposed to stand for, we wouldn't be having this problem and we wouldn't even be having such a president that creates this problem.
Really? That took not even thirty seconds of research. I'm not sure where on earth you got the idea that blacks couldn't serve in the military until "not long ago," when they've been in essentially every conflict America has been in.
It's fine if you think transgenders should serve in the military. You're free to think that. But for the time being, it's not going to happen.
I just looked up how long it takes someone to transition to another sex. Allegedly it can take from several months to several years. I'm not sure in what planet you live on, but if someone in your unit is out for that long it places a huge burden on everyone else because they have to pick up the slack left behind. The military is an extremely tough, fast-paced environment. Go ahead and keep thinking about how horrible of a person I am.
It's fine if you think transgenders should serve in the military. You're free to think that. But for the time being, it's not going to happen.
I just looked up how long it takes someone to transition to another sex. Allegedly it can take from several months to several years. I'm not sure in what planet you live on, but if someone in your unit is out for that long it places a huge burden on everyone else because they have to pick up the slack left behind. The military is an extremely tough, fast-paced environment. Go ahead and keep thinking about how horrible of a person I am.
Idfldnsndt
Senior Member
You do realise that transgender people are generally not confused about what gender they are? Do you know what it means to be trans? You live as your gender. You know what gender you are.
People transition differently, not everyone will want or need surgeries so I don't know why you bring up costs as an issue. It's totally discrimination and disgusting to exclude people from being able to join the mitary just because they are transgender.
your taking everything im saying way too personally. and as for the information, i didnt get that from wikipedia. that one website every college prof. tells you not to use as a source for research. i got it from my grandfather who serviced longer than you were alive (unless your over 90 years old.) and experienced discrimination first-hand and your deliberately missing the point everyone is saying.
no one said anything about you being a horrible person. and there is nothing i said that implies that. that idea literally just formulated in your head.
if you want to be educated about transgender people, talk to transgender people. googling stuff is cool but not everything out there can be taken as textbook. especially if you dont know who exactly writes or posts this and that.
You're literally dismissing my post just because I used Wikipedia.
https://www.army.mil/africanamericans/timeline.html Is that official enough for you? By the way, the Wikipedia article literally has the sources it references.
And I'm in the military right now and I don't see any discrimination towards anyone. No one does. Everyone is treated the exact same. You have to earn your respect. I'd die for the guys I'm serving with, and they'd do the same for me. Times have changed. I'm not saying it's right how minorities were treated in the past.
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