Mafia Themeless Mafia-Mafia Win!

toadsworthy said:

is that all you needed to vote for Jacob? seems like a quick jump?
or do you have some other reasoning for voting him right now?

also why did Apple vote for Hayden? The last I saw he just said "because he is scummy"
however if he thinks he is scummy for the same reasons as Jacob then I'm not really convinced on him either

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Jacob said:

I really didn't think it was necessary for me to dig up even more posts to relate the examples I pointed out, I thought everyone in the game was capable enough to think of their own lynch candidate.
I said to find your own examples and apply it to a meta if you felt like it, I'm not making anybody do it and I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe me. I'm just justifying why I think Heyden is mafia because Ness asked for it.

And if you think that my thoughts on Heyden are wrong then go ahead and formulate your own reads on someone else, don't just vote me because you think one of us has to be mafia. That's extremely toxic, lazy, and scummy behavior.

I'm only getting a little frustrated because I spent a lot of time going back and forth between games to try and write up that analysis as neatly and easy to understand as possible, and I'm not really sure how that equates to scummy behavior.

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Jacob said:

Scum Heyden is often serious, getting to the point about his reads and thoughts on a mafia game

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toadsworthy said:

OK, I understand you did a lot of work on that... I can clearly tell. I'm not discounting that, but you did that and ended up saying that Hayden is scum by looking at his meta because in a previous game when he was mafia he was serious from the start.


you said for people to go look at his posts and decide where they fall based on your meta-analysis. So I did. and what I saw were the quotes that I quoted just a second ago. I saw him being not serious, which follows your meta-analysis as heyden being town, not scum.... so I just find it completely looney that you made a meta-analysis essentially saying

serious heyden = scum
casual heyden = town

ended by saying you think he is scum because of that, but didn't go back and look at his actual posts from this game to see he actually has a fair amount of joking posts

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Jacob said:

Trust me, I went back and looked at them. Maybe I'm reading different posts or maybe I'm interpreting them different than you.
If you do not find Heyden scummy thats fine. I just want a reason for why you're voting me.

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toadsworthy said:

So to me it just looks like an elaborate effort to sus Hayden since you both are in the spotlight, hoping people will just believe you...

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Jacob said:

This just doesn't make sense to me because I have been saying Heyden was suspicious since Day 1, before I was in the spotlight

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Jacob said:

It's easy playing sheep, isn't it

I'm done for tonight.

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Primarina said:

I'm going to have to vote for Jacob based on the most recent posts, and also given the fact that I was already suspicious of him.

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toadsworthy said:

did you really read Jacob's meta-analysis? did you read my questioning of it? did you then go back and look at heyden's specific posts and make your own conclusion?

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Jacob said:

Ok here is my META analysis on Heyden

This game: I am pinning my suspicion on him to fall under his scum play. I've played quite a few games with Heyden, and I like to think I'm able to catch the differences between his alignments.

At the time I am posting this, Heyden's activity is high; Third highest in the game. 49 posts made by day 2.

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Scum game: Overwatch Mafia

This is the game I will be taking examples of Heyden's scum behavior from.

In Overwatch mafia, his activity was high, 50 posts made by day 2, even after being replaced in.
- Upon initial viewing, Heyden's activity while playing as scum is generally higher, generating more posts and thus applying more thought and effort into shielding himself from looking like scum.

I filtered through all of Heyden's posts from this game and pulled out quotes that reflected my statement that as scum, Heyden puts a significantly more amount of useful, even though fake, content:

a.
*A respectable analysis of a lot of players, this was Heyden's first post after the RQS. This demonstrates how he jumps right into the seriousness of the game.


b.
* This is Heyden's very second post after the RQS. Still keeping his ideas on track, while loosening up his language and grammar. Probably trying to mask the formality to make it look like he isn't trying.


So right off the bat, it's not difficult to tell that as mafia, Heyden takes his games fairly seriously.
His next 7 or 8 posts all work the same, on the track of the thread, commenting on other people?s ideas.

c.

As demonstrated in this quote, scum Heyden likes to comment a lot on the number of mafia players in a game and subtly probe players into outting their roles or their strategies (As seen in the second and third lines), very similarly to the way he was outright asking players to claim earlier this game, which is also why I called him out for it. Instead of asking Endless who he bussed last night, he should've waited for endless to disclose that information, just like how a role claim should work.

Now don't get me wrong, a lot if not most mafia players have this same playing style as town, but upon further analysis on Heyden's town play, it's not hard to see why I think Heyden is scum in this game.

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Town Game: Miraculous Ladybug Cultists

This is the biggest most recent game Heyden has participated in as town. It was from a few months ago, but it's definitely worth taking a deep look into for play style.

As for the post count in Miraculous Ladybug mafia, Heyden's activity was reasonably high, but he only made 51 posts by the end of Night 3. Before all else, this is a huge signifier that less effort was executed as town.


d.
*One of the very first posts made by Heyden in Day 0, a probing day for information.

Straight up lack of interest in the game from the very beginning. This is in huge contrast to what his first posts looked like in Overwatch mafia. Take it as you will.

From here on out, Heyden's posts as town are lackluster. Many veterans who I know who have played with Heyden know and describe him as a wild card, posting whatever comes to his mind even if it acts to confuse town purposely. And this style actually tends to work out, people have a hard time reading a play that doesn't reflect actual concrete thought processes. However this is not the play style Heyden is using in this current game.

Here are some quotes to back up what I am claiming:

e.

f.
* This was his reaction to Glow getting killed Night one, exactly like this game. As I mentioned before because they?re friends he takes it as a joke. There is nothing serious in his reaction to a mislynch and this just strengthens the idea that as town, Heyden just doesn?t care about screwing up or saying the wrong thing.

g.

h.

i.

j.
* This post is in retaliation to someone calling out Heyden for making a joke statement about being culted.

If you pull up any of the posts in this game currently, it's really difficult to find this many non-serious wild card quotes. I hardly found any emojis which is a pretty prominent part of Heyden's posts when he is comfortable! (Obviously not serious, yet something worth considering! The little things matter.)

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So now since I went through Heyden's contrasting play style, you should be able to pick out any post heyden made in this game and decide which category it falls under.

* Taking a quick look back on the post counts also:
49 posts in 3 cycles in current game
50 posts in 3 cycles in scum game
51 posts in 7 cycles in town game *

He is not playing as he usually does as town and I find it extremely unsettling. For this reason, I think Heyden is scum.


TL;DR: Scum Heyden is often serious, getting to the point about his reads and thoughts on a mafia game. Town Heyden is extremely loose and not serious or concerned about consequences.
In the current game, Heyden is matching his usual scum play.

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N e s s said:

I like how Nightmares just came in out of the blue and randomly voted for Jacob without much reasoning

- - - Post Merge - - -

^sarcasm, btw. It's scummy.

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Bowie said:

I'm still convinced Nightmares and Apple are trying to blend in with everybody else, to be honest. Apple hasn't been able to say a word in retaliation and I get very suspicious vibes from Nightmares.

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Bowie said:

I'm still convinced Nightmares and Apple are trying to blend in with everybody else, to be honest. Apple hasn't been able to say a word in retaliation and I get very suspicious vibes from Nightmares.

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