Life update, and advice on forgiveness?

Hellfish said:

Two wrongs don't make a right. There's a difference between being a punching bag and not being as bad as your sister. What I'm saying is treat her as you would like to be treated, even if she's horrible (feel like I'm quoting the bible here...), this is my mentality. If someone chopped off my legs I would forgive them (Maybe not in the moment, but eventually).

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I personally am a Christian. I agree that it is important to always forgive, and I agree with the statement, "treat someone how you would want to be treated," even if the other person does not abide by that morale. If I were being abusive and cruel, I'd want someone to tell me, even if it makes me sad and/or upset for a while, because it is necessary to communicate that. If I were being selfish and didn't want to hear your explanation, I'd want the person to stop talking to me until I figured out what I was doing really was hurtful. Because I really do want to be a better person than I have been.

Forgiveness isn't always easy or instantaneous. Sometimes you really need to cut off or limit your time with a person to forgive them completely. Sometimes it is important to look after your own mental and physical health before someone else's, because in some cases, it is incredibly difficult to help someone when you aren't feeling nurtured yourself. Even if you already forgive her, just because you love someone and want to do the most for someone doesn't mean that it is the best choice for your own sake. Ultimately, you're going to be assessing what you think is the best choice. If you are able to find an adequate mediator, someone who will understand both sides and help you two work things out, whether a mutual friend or family member or counselor, that's great, even if you need someone there for safety and especially if she is cooperative! If not, then I'd also cut her out. Sometimes it takes separation for a person to realize what s/he's doing is as serious as it really is and to not take for granted the love given to him/her.

If you do choose to limit your contact to some degree or completely, you can still pray for her (if you do pray), hope the best for her, and be available when it's really important or when she decides she will work on putting away her abusive tendencies.

First of all, I'm glad your mother is doing okay and I'm sorry that she is going through this and I'm sorry your family is going through this tough time. Its heartbreaking.

I believe what you did was right, self defence is always okay in situations like you described, she shouldn't have hit you and it seemed like she wouldn't stop, so you definitely should have defended yourself physically, I would have done the same. I don't think you should accept her apology now, a text will not resolve anything. You need to meet up and talk, you should talk about the current situation and express yourselves to get a better understanding of each other, maybe talk about your anxiety? And maybe she'll open up about her stress. Talk about her abuse and try to make her see that she's abusive, tell her about your experience's and the most recent experience you've had with her abuse and maybe she will see that's she's hurting the people she loves, not just you but your dad, you both fighting isn't making things better for him, so that's another point she will have to consider. She needs a councillor or something that will help soften her abusive tendencies, abusive people don't change but they can soften, it's just the way it is. She'll be abusive for the rest of her life, but you can soften it.
You said you love her kids and have a close relationship with them so it makes sense that she would eventually apologize to you personally, not by text, mother's will do everything to make their kids happy and if you make her kids happy she will definitely apologize to you, especially because your her kids Aunt/Auntie.

I hope the situation gets better, I'm sorry you're having a tough time and my regards go to your mother and father along with anybody else in your family who is suffering.

Please don't forgive your sister until she makes the effort to apologize to you properly, you don't have to forgive her you can just put up with her so you can have a relationship with your nephew's/niece's.

I hope things get better for you, you don't deserve any of this.

Side note: Why are people bringing up religion? It's not going to solve anything, prayers go unanswered.

Doge and Amanda have already put what I'd want to say in way better words than I could but I do feel like it's worth saying again that you do not need to forgive anyone, especially in a situation like this.

It does not necessarily put you at peace or "enlighten" you, and in many cases it can actually do you more harm. My biological father hit my mother so hard she nearly fell on top of me and crushed me to death. If I ever forgave him (which I have zero intention of doing), it would break my mother's heart and tear my family more than it already has. Forgiveness isn't always the best thing and it is not necessary. Please don't feel like you have to forgive her in order to move on with your life and be happy. I'm much happier and much more at peace knowing that ****head will never lay a finger on my mom and will never be entitled to an ounce of respect from my brother or I ever again.

Also worth noting, if you choose not to forgive someone who wronged you so horribly and cut them out of your life it won't dwell on you forever, especially if it was for the best. It won't drag you down forever. Even if it does make you feel angry or bitter when you think about it, that is not a bad thing. Having negative emotions, especially towards negative experiences is not bad and certainly not unhealthy, it's what makes us human.

Forgiveness is very important. If you live your life having that bitter, hateful feeling towards someone it will always hold onto a piece of your heart. Sometimes you just have to be the better person and be the one to do the forgiving. While it was wrong of your sister to slap you like that, I would not have hit her back. Violence breeds violence as you have seen from the result of that scenario. I don't know how old your sister is, but she sounds like a toddler in an adult body from your description. If you're close to her kids, it's nice to be at least on speaking terms with your sister. She doesn't sound like the kind of person you want to be around constantly though. I don't know if you're religious at all, but as a Christian, a prayer doesn't hurt when you want to help someone close to you.

I think a situation like this is not really the right way to start a discussion about the value of forgiveness, but I would like to stress that the forgiveness involves you letting go of negative emotions and focusing on positivity in your life. It's a Buddhist thing, I guess, but I think it works. My sister destroyed my whole family, practically, and forgiving her was the only way that I could move past it, because otherwise I would always have felt like something needed to be done to bring closure. You have to give yourself the closure. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you have to have any kind of relationship with that person again.

To be truly happy, you have to eliminate negative people and negative emotions from your life.

Bowie said:

I think a situation like this is not really the right way to start a discussion about the value of forgiveness, but I would like to stress that the forgiveness involves you letting go of negative emotions and focusing on positivity in your life. It's a Buddhist thing, I guess, but I think it works. My sister destroyed my whole family, practically, and forgiving her was the only way that I could move past it, because otherwise I would always have felt like something needed to be done to bring closure. You have to give yourself the closure. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you have to have any kind of relationship with that person again.

To be truly happy, you have to eliminate negative people and negative emotions from your life.

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I guess what I meant when I said forgive, is to go back to having a relationship with her and having contact. I don't intend on harbouring resentment, although there are definitely hurt feelings right now in my case. I don't think it will last forever but I do need time to "get over it" and stop thinking about the humiliation I felt that day. But I guess the real question was should I forgive her and start making contact with her again. Trust me, I have forgiven her for a lot of things already with no sign of her ever owning up to any of her faults. That's why this is an issue for me. If this was the first wrong she had committed, I would have already forgiven her. If it wasn't the millionth thing she did to hurt me, this wouldn't be an issue. I am not gonna talk about the other stuff obviously because I'm not going to betray her like that, but that's the only reason I am questioning forgiving her or trying to maintain a relationship with her.

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DarkDesertFox said:

Forgiveness is very important. If you live your life having that bitter, hateful feeling towards someone it will always hold onto a piece of your heart. Sometimes you just have to be the better person and be the one to do the forgiving. While it was wrong of your sister to slap you like that, I would not have hit her back. Violence breeds violence as you have seen from the result of that scenario. I don't know how old your sister is, but she sounds like a toddler in an adult body from your description. If you're close to her kids, it's nice to be at least on speaking terms with your sister. She doesn't sound like the kind of person you want to be around constantly though. I don't know if you're religious at all, but as a Christian, a prayer doesn't hurt when you want to help someone close to you.

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Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the point of whether fighting back is right or wrong. My sister is turning 36 this year, I am 26. Trust me when I say I don't usually keep hateful or bitter feelings, and I am the most forgiving person (this has been a blessing and a curse, as I have endured a lot of abuse because of this, both physical and emotional, but I have also developed a lot of empathy and love which I am happy for). You got that right - my sister is very childish and immature. This stems from her insecurities and it is something that I've always accommodated her for, and I've been kind to her even through her insults and wrongdoings in the past. I guess I just had enough, because that was the most that I ever felt humiliated by her.

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Whiteflamingo said:

First of all, I'm glad your mother is doing okay and I'm sorry that she is going through this and I'm sorry your family is going through this tough time. Its heartbreaking.

I believe what you did was right, self defence is always okay in situations like you described, she shouldn't have hit you and it seemed like she wouldn't stop, so you definitely should have defended yourself physically, I would have done the same. I don't think you should accept her apology now, a text will not resolve anything. You need to meet up and talk, you should talk about the current situation and express yourselves to get a better understanding of each other, maybe talk about your anxiety? And maybe she'll open up about her stress. Talk about her abuse and try to make her see that she's abusive, tell her about your experience's and the most recent experience you've had with her abuse and maybe she will see that's she's hurting the people she loves, not just you but your dad, you both fighting isn't making things better for him, so that's another point she will have to consider. She needs a councillor or something that will help soften her abusive tendencies, abusive people don't change but they can soften, it's just the way it is. She'll be abusive for the rest of her life, but you can soften it.
You said you love her kids and have a close relationship with them so it makes sense that she would eventually apologize to you personally, not by text, mother's will do everything to make their kids happy and if you make her kids happy she will definitely apologize to you, especially because your her kids Aunt/Auntie.

I hope the situation gets better, I'm sorry you're having a tough time and my regards go to your mother and father along with anybody else in your family who is suffering.

Please don't forgive your sister until she makes the effort to apologize to you properly, you don't have to forgive her you can just put up with her so you can have a relationship with your nephew's/niece's.

I hope things get better for you, you don't deserve any of this.

Side note: Why are people bringing up religion? It's not going to solve anything, prayers go unanswered.

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Thank you so much I'm at least very glad that my mom is doing better. It was almost unbearable to have to deal with both my mom's health and my sister's assault at the same time. It was more stressful than it had to be.. At a time that we should have been supporting each other, we fought instead. And over such a small thing. Unfortunately, I know that my sister will never apologise in person (unless by some miracle), and she has never, not even once in her life, admitted that she was wrong or acknowledged ever hurting me. Even when she texted her apology, she said it was the stress that was to blame. No accountability. The last time we fought when she ended up yelling at me in public and coming up to me and pinching me in my arm, we didn't talk for months. She won't apologise for her kids' sake. In fact, the reason we made up is because she came up to me and said, "I will never apologise and you won't, so let's just have a truce." Trust me when I say that I was the one who was owed the apology. This is why it's hard to just keep forgiving her.

I agree, prayer doesn't solve much (in my opinion). If the person doesn't want to change, no prayer is going to help them. I believe in action more than prayer, and if my kindness towards her throughout the years didn't cause her to appreciate me or stop trying to bring me down and hurting me, then how can a prayer change the situation. (This is just my opinion - everyone is free to believe in what they want).

But anyway, thank you so much for your support You are a kind person and I appreciate your advice!

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amanda1983 said:

Ah I realise now that I left out a crucial part I meant to include in the 2nd last paragraph. I am sorry for implying that self defence should only ever be passive. I do not think that at all : *I* am only capable of responding with a completely defensive version of self defence. Due to medical circumstances, I am utterly unable to rely on my physical abilities in a physical confrontation. Whilst I am very strong and capable normally, especially for my size, my body cannot function properly under certain situations. So. Through long and bitter experience, I have developed a set of behaviours that either de-escalate the situation or secure rapid help from another party. In public, in practice, this means I always keep an eye on my surroundings and the people around me. At the first sign of any kind of trouble, I automatically adjust my position with that information in mind and I am thinking through my options (yell for help, call the police, throw my bag at them and run, etc). Given my limitations and how I respond in public, it would literally require a life-threatening situation for me to respond with any physical action because that is the response that is least likely to work out well for me.

In a situation of hair pulling (wtf is an adult thinking to do such a thing for ****s sake???) or other act that is difficult to block, I would be utterly dependent on the help of onlookers. That kind of pain would render me unable to hit back even if I thought that would help.

Again, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear about the difference between *my* personal experience and limitations, and how "self defence" can - and usually is - more than that.

I hope you can find a way to resolve this terrible situation so that you can move on.

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Oh, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding then! I'm very sorry that you have experienced it that way, where you can't really defend yourself actively I hope that you never ever find yourself in a situation where you would need to in the future, and if it ever does happen, I hope that there are kind people around that would help you. It breaks my heart to know that people get assaulted and bullied and everyone just stands by watching/filming. And also, thank you for your kind words!

I wanted to say again that I'm sorry you're in this situation and I'm just livid that you get so little support from your family due to your forgiving nature. If anything that should rally them to support you even more!

Honestly if you can take it I think you should distance yourself from these people who take advantage of your kindness.

Arize said:

I guess what I meant when I said forgive, is to go back to having a relationship with her and having contact. I don't intend on harbouring resentment, although there are definitely hurt feelings right now in my case. I don't think it will last forever but I do need time to "get over it" and stop thinking about the humiliation I felt that day. But I guess the real question was should I forgive her and start making contact with her again. Trust me, I have forgiven her for a lot of things already with no sign of her ever owning up to any of her faults. That's why this is an issue for me. If this was the first wrong she had committed, I would have already forgiven her. If it wasn't the millionth thing she did to hurt me, this wouldn't be an issue. I am not gonna talk about the other stuff obviously because I'm not going to betray her like that, but that's the only reason I am questioning forgiving her or trying to maintain a relationship with her.

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Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the point of whether fighting back is right or wrong. My sister is turning 36 this year, I am 26. Trust me when I say I don't usually keep hateful or bitter feelings, and I am the most forgiving person (this has been a blessing and a curse, as I have endured a lot of abuse because of this, both physical and emotional, but I have also developed a lot of empathy and love which I am happy for). You got that right - my sister is very childish and immature. This stems from her insecurities and it is something that I've always accommodated her for, and I've been kind to her even through her insults and wrongdoings in the past. I guess I just had enough, because that was the most that I ever felt humiliated by her.

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Thank you so much I'm at least very glad that my mom is doing better. It was almost unbearable to have to deal with both my mom's health and my sister's assault at the same time. It was more stressful than it had to be.. At a time that we should have been supporting each other, we fought instead. And over such a small thing. Unfortunately, I know that my sister will never apologise in person (unless by some miracle), and she has never, not even once in her life, admitted that she was wrong or acknowledged ever hurting me. Even when she texted her apology, she said it was the stress that was to blame. No accountability. The last time we fought when she ended up yelling at me in public and coming up to me and pinching me in my arm, we didn't talk for months. She won't apologise for her kids' sake. In fact, the reason we made up is because she came up to me and said, "I will never apologise and you won't, so let's just have a truce." Trust me when I say that I was the one who was owed the apology. This is why it's hard to just keep forgiving her.

I agree, prayer doesn't solve much (in my opinion). If the person doesn't want to change, no prayer is going to help them. I believe in action more than prayer, and if my kindness towards her throughout the years didn't cause her to appreciate me or stop trying to bring me down and hurting me, then how can a prayer change the situation. (This is just my opinion - everyone is free to believe in what they want).

But anyway, thank you so much for your support You are a kind person and I appreciate your advice!

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Oh, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding then! I'm very sorry that you have experienced it that way, where you can't really defend yourself actively I hope that you never ever find yourself in a situation where you would need to in the future, and if it ever does happen, I hope that there are kind people around that would help you. It breaks my heart to know that people get assaulted and bullied and everyone just stands by watching/filming. And also, thank you for your kind words!

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Completely understandable, some people are just stubborn.
Thanks for the kind words and I'll continue to support you, family is everything and I know family life can be stressful so I hate seeing great people like you hurting. ='(

Soda Fox said:

I wanted to say again that I'm sorry you're in this situation and I'm just livid that you get so little support from your family due to your forgiving nature. If anything that should rally them to support you even more!

Honestly if you can take it I think you should distance yourself from these people who take advantage of your kindness.

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It's alright. Thank you for caring Honestly, though, I'm just happy my mom is better now. If my sister wants to keep being petty, fine. If she wants to keep ignoring me, that's okay too. But I'm just going to be there for my mom and focus on that. If by some miracle, my sister ever sincerely apologizes, mainly for trying to turn everyone against me and for hitting my boyfriend as well (he now has a scar on his hand, and so do I), then I can think about mending our relationship. Right now, I guess I just shouldn't burden myself with thoughts about it. Thanks again I really appreciate your support!

You can forgive her without being around her. Forgive you're sister for you but stay away from her. If she's gonna react that violently over something stupid like the while in the middle of a family crisis, than she it too unstable to be around.Your sister needs professional help if that's how she acts. Your sister can apologizes all she wants, but words don't mean anything, if people are truly sorry they changer they're behavior. That's what you have to look at her behavior. I'd say stay away from your sister until she makes the conscious decision to fix her self. If you see she is taking steps to fix herself, work on her anger, and changer her behavior then would say it's safe to try and talk to her and try and be in her life. Until then keep her at arms length. I know from personal experence It's hard to cut out family memebers, but sometimes it's the best thing for you.

Bowie said:

You leave, if you have the opportunity to. Walk away. You said you were in a waiting room when it happened. Get up and go outside.

Always forgive. Not for them, but for yourself.

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This is the only post you should listen to essentially.

Holding grudges only hurts you. Forgive them but that doesn't mean to kiss their ass again. That also doesn't mean to attack them and perhaps be violent. Abusive people don't learn through others yelling at them. Trust me, they don't. The best method is to limit conversation with them and see if they change. You don't need to cut her off completely yet but definitely limit your conversation with her. Maybe eventually ween off her completely.

My honest opinion, and if I'm late. Take it in stride. People with kids who are toxic and manipulative will intend to use anything they can against you, even with gaslighting. Take it from someone who had enough of putting up with sisters who would refuse to give my mother respect that she honestly deserved, even in the case that my father was dying, and had passed away, and then accuse me of abandoning when I have actual responsibilities to go back to across the country, to keep a place and a job and crap.

Don't forgive her. Honestly, the text apology is a half ass apology if she can literally just go see you in person. If it was someone online, if they kept trying for your forgiveness and actively tried to make up for it, yes, then, by all means. However, she really just intends to use you as it seems to build her up and break you down. Such a manipulative little prick. Now, in the instance with her children, it is very hard, considering that you do care for her children. I care for my niece and nephew, but because of how toxic and selfishly inconsiderate my sister who has kids is, I can't exactly give them my time. Either because I'm physically not there or I no longer want to speak to my sister. It's not a great way to end a relationship...

But, she needs to realize, you aren't her door mat, stepping stool, and all that crap. You're not dirt. You're someone. You're a human being. Remember that. You're worth every moment of your boyfriend's breath. You're worth every moment your mom tries to fight for her life. Honestly, your sister is your sister, but I still say blood can be thinner, much much thinner, than water. I feel like you're pretty genuine... It sucks that you're going through this.

Your sister doesn't really care for you if she thinks that using stress and crap is an excuse to snap and get in your face to instigate a fight. Yes, hitting her was careless, but sometimes, how else is she going to learn that you're not going to just sit there?

Honestly, she's going to continue berating you, tearing you down, in any means, whether it is for stress or not. A text apology does not make up for this. I prefer her apologizing in your face, in front of your father and your boyfriend, and take back everything she said.

EDIT:

I forgot to add. Only when she truly apologizes, forgive her. A meaningless apology accompanies the idea that saying sorry gets you out of anything.

I disagree with Corrie. She has every right to fight back when someone is physically attacking her. Try walking away when someone is beating on you and see how much they care, they don't. If anyone bystanders gave a damn in the first place they would have said something when her sister spat in her face and slapped her AND the sister hit her boyfriend.

Wow, that's just unbelievable! I feel like an apology over text isn't a real apology at all. And from how you worded it, she made excuses for her behavior instead of saying "I'm sorry I did this because I messed up regardless of my stress."

I really don't know how to advise on whether to forgive this or not. I think the advice to always forgive no matter what is very misguided. On one hand, keeping anger and resentment inside isn't good just for your own sake. But on the other hand, you have to be careful not to let this incident blow over without standing up for yourself and just say "well I'll forgive her" and have it be the end of it. I don't know the situation but if you feel things have calmed down, maybe ask to speak to her face to face and tell her you feel the apology was only half hearted and talk it out. But that may cause more problems since she seems so volatile.

I'm truly sorry you have to go through all this. *hugs*

Thanks everyone, for your support <3 Even those of you that I don't agree with, thank you for your input It was good for me to talk this out and really figure out how I feel about this situation. My boyfriend and I had a long talk about it today, and he agrees with cutting her off until she sincerely apologizes and actually changes the way she treats me. He knows what she has done to me and he feels I've given her enough chances which she has taken for granted. I agree with this, and it seems that a lot of people here agree with this, even though some of you don't. So thank you all, it helped clear my head to hear everyone's advice!

Arize said:

Thanks everyone, for your support <3 Even those of you that I don't agree with, thank you for your input It was good for me to talk this out and really figure out how I feel about this situation. My boyfriend and I had a long talk about it today, and he agrees with cutting her off until she sincerely apologizes and actually changes the way she treats me. He knows what she has done to me and he feels I've given her enough chances which she has taken for granted. I agree with this, and it seems that a lot of people here agree with this, even though some of you don't. So thank you all, it helped clear my head to hear everyone's advice!

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I'd say you made the right choice there. So sorry that had to happen. Toxic family members are no good.
My bf stopped talking to his mum for ages because she's also toxic. He spoke to her again but she never changed. Neither did the rest of his family (who are also toxic) so he's moved away from them and has nothing to do with any of them. I know these people are family by blood but that shouldn't give you a biased opinion and let them get away with things. Those situations aren't usually healthy for all people involved. Families don't treat each other like crap and they support each other so I'm sure you know who your real family is.