Trump reverses Obama's guidance on bathrooms

Ghost Soda said:

I'm pretty sure Whiteflamingo was saying that if the woman weren't trans, the guy would've been caught by now.

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I'm not sure if law enforcements are biased like that. Most aren't.

It is a good theory, but I just don't think it's right. The women's case not being investigated or looked into because of her wanting to be herself. There are times that law enforcement can't protect and serve due to lack of resources, evidence, et cetera.

I do understand the passion that many on this thread feel and I see no direct problem with it.

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dino said:

i mean, i guess if you're not subject to the oppression and violence, it's easy to claim it's not about directed hate and phobia.

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Um, you don't know a thing about me.

Please don't assume things. All people are subject to oppression and violence.

I don't want unisex bathrooms only I'm not comfortable around boys for facilities like that

Also y are people paying attention to who uses which bathroom...y are they connecting and making eye contact and closely looking

I saw a couple of posts talking about how they find the issue to be ridiculous, and I agree, it is ridiclous. In fact, whether or not you find gendered bathrooms unnecessary, it still was not an issue until like four years ago. I'm not sure who started the debate, but this was how ridiculous our society has become. I would have to say that neither side in government were actually looking for a new issue, but I think society wanted to get the law involved. If you want to know what started this issue, I think it's society's intolerance towards transgender people. Maybe trans-males and trans-females have been using the bathrooms of their gender identity the whole time before it entered the spotlight. And now some are even favoring elimination of gender restrictions altogether.

Raskell said:

I disagree. I think it is a confusing and controversial issue. Those who partake in trying to handle the social issue are just trying to do their best.

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Was it because she was transgender though? That is the question. It is likely the horrific man who asked for directions didn't stab her because of her identifying with a different gender than she was born with.

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?????????????????????????
they know that this change puts trans people in even more danger. i odnt care if are worried sbout cisgender pedophiles going into the girls bathroom (which they can do anyway just theyll be thrown out but like anyone who is in a bathroom to commit sex crimes will not be welcome) it is still transphobic. also i think it is Totally about trans people theyre just coverign it up because everyone hates pedophiles and preventing sex crimes is Good.

this is not about opinions. you cant be like "well but in my opinion this group isnt oppressed" thats not how it works. trans people are saying that they are harassed in bathrooms by cis people. this change will make trans people an even bigger target.

and honestly stop it. idk about that particular case but trans people (especially trans women of colour) are murdered a lot more than the cis population. simply for being transgender.

Raskell said:

I'm not sure if law enforcements are biased like that. Most aren't.

It is a good theory, but I just don't think it's right. The women's case not being investigated or looked into because of her wanting to be herself. There are times that law enforcement can't protect and serve due to lack of resources, evidence, et cetera.

I do understand the passion that many on this thread feel and I see no direct problem with it.

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Um, you don't know a thing about me.

Please don't assume things. All people are subject to oppression and violence.

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not transphobia lmao stopppppppp. not everyone has to worry about being yelled at in a bathroom because theyre trans. cis people arent targeted for simply being alive as a cis person.
please just stop trying to prove transphobia isnt real or that it isnt that bad. youre being really Not Great

and law enforcement arent biased ?????????? what world do you live in
let me show u a thing. http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/ncavp_transhvfactsheet.pdf
police are more violent toward trans people. police are more violent against people of color. this isnt about opinions it is about facts.

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link link but yeah no trans people are Safe and we shouldnt assume that murdered trans women were murdered for being trans

link and it is totally a coincidence that we need **** like this

link transgender kids are safer with gender neutral bathrooms or if they are allowed to use the right bathroom in school? yeah ok whatever this is still Juuuust about protecting our children from the disgusting cross dressers

I suspect most people don't just go into bathrooms and think okay I know these people and I trust them. I'm sure that they're very conscientious of the people around them.

Maybe a bathroom by age would be better? Like so a 45 yr old man cant go into the bathroom with a teenage girl?
Or maybe the stalls could be more than just flimsy half-open little doors that barely even lock?

Or maybe people could just suck it up. Like Apple said no one cared so much abut this issue until a few years ago.

Like if you're that afraid to go into a unisex bathroom or one of the opposite gender alone then take a buddy. It's really simple.
And if it's a one person bathroom with a heavy locked door then who's gonna get in??

^ yeah. tho age restricted bathrooms would be weird since sometimes kids cant or dont wanna go in there alone plus sex offenders can be pretty much any age so i dont see how it would solve anything, i just feel like it would be more of a pain and not fix anything but idk lmao

Gendered bathrooms should stay the way they are, trans people should be able to go into whatever bathroom they want, the stalls should be less than a flimsy bit of wood.

Okay, when are the admins locking this thread?

I have a hard time understanding why bathrooms are a political and social issue.

They're bathrooms. Bathrooms, people!

Raskell said:

I have a hard time understanding why bathrooms are a political and social issue.

They're bathrooms. Bathrooms, people!

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It's a social issue because of the rights of transgender men/women. They should be allowed to go into the bathroom that fits their gender identity. It's a political issue because the old white men in charge put cis people above trans issues and allow transphobia to continue.

old white men in charge live in a bubble, and would rather society conform to their limited worldview than accept those differences and branch out beyond said bubble

Raskell said:

I have a hard time understanding why bathrooms are a political and social issue.

They're bathrooms. Bathrooms, people!

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if you'd read my posts and the links i posted about violence against trans people maybe you'd understand a bit more but alright

visibleghost said:

if you'd read my posts and the links i posted about violence against trans people maybe you'd understand a bit more but alright

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You did post some good sources on the topic of transphobic violence. See, Raskell? SOURCES!

Going into a bathroom that doesn't fit their gender identity or their needs not only makes them feel worthless, but it exposes them to hate crimes and makes them vulnerable. The majority of hate crime is towards trans people, which is why it's not just 'bathrooms'.

Raskell said:

Um, you don't know a thing about me.

Please don't assume things. All people are subject to oppression and violence.

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lmfaoooo. this gaslighting. nah, ain't even playing to that tactic.

oppression intersectionality. aka people who aren't trans = cannot speak for trans experiences or oppressions bc oppressions are not apples to apples and you cannot compare them directly 1:1. trans people discuss their oppressions as a community, have a collective community reality, based on fact and know whether the violence against them stems from bigotry.

and don't send advice to people you're not gonna take yourself

visibleghost said:

this is not about opinions. you cant be like "well but in my opinion this group isnt oppressed" thats not how it works. trans people are saying that they are harassed in bathrooms by cis people. this change will make trans people an even bigger target.

not transphobia lmao stopppppppp. not everyone has to worry about being yelled at in a bathroom because theyre trans. cis people arent targeted for simply being alive as a cis person. please just stop trying to prove transphobia isnt real or that it isnt that bad. youre being really Not Great

and law enforcement arent biased ?????????? what world do you live in
let me show u a thing. http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/ncavp_transhvfactsheet.pdf
police are more violent toward trans people. police are more violent against people of color. this isnt about opinions it is about facts.

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really nice, concise response and sources! i definitely agree 200% and i hope people are taking the time to consider and learn the statistics and proven reality of transgender and other marginalized people, rather than just stating opinion and getting upset when people respond factually. educating oneself is difficult and utterly important.

and if people aren't willing to discuss this on such a level, i would advise maybe not making or responding to the thread in the first place? being able to say that social issues aren't a big deal or are a ~lite forum topic is a huge privilege.

this isn't just a topic on a computer screen for a lot of people. this is their bodily and mental safety, this is their every day existence, this is the future of their actual life.

LambdaDelta said:

old white men in charge live in a bubble, and would rather society conform to their limited worldview than accept those differences and branch out beyond said bubble

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Men in politics don't understand the struggles women have. It's quite upsetting because they're so closed-minded. I don't want to move the argument into a different topic, but it's similar to the problems with abortions. A cis white old man isn't going to ever understand the problems women face. It's exactly the same with transgender men/women. They don't think it's important, so the same cis white males who run the country who won't open their eyes to real world problems so they say they're 'just bathrooms'.

forestyne said:

but it's similar to the problems with abortions

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funny enough, this was *exactly* another thing I was thinking of while typing the above up

forestyne said:

It's a social issue because of the rights of transgender men/women. They should be allowed to go into the bathroom that fits their gender identity. It's a political issue because the old white men in charge put cis people above trans issues and allow transphobia to continue.

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There's actually a reason why they don't seem to care about trans people that much. Even if the minority matters, focusing on them more than the majority has just as many negative consequences as focusing on the majority more than the minority. Even if some norms and cultural elements appeal to the majority, they got to realize that not everybody follows their lifestyles. We recognize Christmas as a national holiday, but not everybody is a Christian. We have expectations in education (like needing to know at least Algebra 2 before college), but not everybody could meet these expectations. But even if we try to listen to minorities in many classifications and appeal to them so they can't feel ignored, they got to realize that we have these lifestyles as the norm because the majority follows these lifestyles. It's not nice to infringe on someone else's lives because some can't agree to them. We shouldn't be forced to speak another language as a US citizen because someone else couldn't speak English. We shouldn't be forced to censor Christmas for Christians because of those who aren't Christian. That's why accommodations should be optional so we can appeal to minorities while letting majorities keep their lifestyles. Giving transgender students the permission to use bathrooms of their identity or having unisex single-occupancy restrooms would be examples of the 50/50 compromise. But there are some issues (like law enforcement and political correctness) where there is no middle ground. So that's why we have to stick to the option that seems more fair. If demands are actually ridiculous, they wouldn't listen to them.

But I do agree that the transgender bullying has to stop.

forestyne said:

See, Raskell? SOURCES!

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Stop please. I'm not debating sources with you.

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forestyne said:

Men in politics don't understand the struggles women have. It's quite upsetting because they're so closed-minded. I don't want to move the argument into a different topic, but it's similar to the problems with abortions. A cis white old man isn't going to ever understand the problems women face. It's exactly the same with transgender men/women. They don't think it's important, so the same cis white males who run the country who won't open their eyes to real world problems so they say they're 'just bathrooms'.

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That's a bit sexist.

Apple2012 said:

There's actually a reason why they don't seem to care about trans people that much. Even if the minority matters, focusing on them more than the majority has just as many negative consequences as focusing on the majority more than the minority. Even if some norms and cultural elements appeal to the majority, they got to realize that not everybody follows their lifestyles. We recognize Christmas as a national holiday, but not everybody is a Christian. We have expectations in education (like needing to know at least Algebra 2 before college), but not everybody could meet these expectations. But even if we try to listen to minorities in many classifications and appeal to them so they can't feel ignored, they got to realize that we have these lifestyles as the norm because the majority follows these lifestyles. It's not nice to infringe on someone else's lives because some can't agree to them. We shouldn't be forced to speak another language as a US citizen because someone else couldn't speak English. We shouldn't be forced to censor Christmas for Christians because of those who aren't Christian. That's why accommodations should be optional so we can appeal to minorities while letting majorities keep their lifestyles. Giving transgender students the permission to use bathrooms of their identity or having unisex single-occupancy restrooms would be examples of the 50/50 compromise. But there are some issues (like law enforcement and political correctness) where there is no middle ground. So that's why we have to stick to the option that seems more fair. If demands are actually ridiculous, they wouldn't listen to them.

But I do agree that the transgender bullying has to stop.

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no one is saying that being trans should be the norm. i'd just like it a lot if we werent killed, threatened, assaulted and bullied for being alive. i get that you're trying to say that you want trans people to get to exist but a lot of people who say that the majority shouldn't have to change their habits or lives to make minorities more comfortable are kinda like "trans people are ok but if i see one in real life i am going to scream and have a heart attack"
sometimes the majority needs to make minor changes in their lives to make the lives of minorities a lot easier.

i think that in order for cis people to truly accept trans people they need to think about gender and understand that they, too, have made a "choice" in their gender identity. this takes effort and you need to understand your own position and your own gender and how gender affects everyone and that it isn't as restricted, binary and factual as we are made to think.
tho we're still working on making cis people not hurt us for just being alive as trans ppl so i guess we have a long way to go until that becomes rly relevant

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Raskell said:

Stop please. I'm not debating sources with you.

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That's a bit sexist.

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????????????????????????????????????????????
what is sexist about saying that men dont understand women's issues when it is the truth. sexism isnt anything negative said about a gender lmao stop reaching please i feel like you're just baiting us now

anyways look at this Nice Meme i found on tumbler dot org

Raskell said:

I have a hard time understanding why bathrooms are a political and social issue.

They're bathrooms. Bathrooms, people!

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If enough people haven't explained it to you:

This is a law banning trans people from going to the bathroom. The ****ing bathroom. Everyone needs to go to the bathroom. You need to go when you're working, you need to go when you're at school, you need to be able to freaking take a pee if you want to live.

By denying people access to public bathrooms, you are essentially banning them from existing in public as a whole. This law is basically telling trans people to stay at home and die. It's violent transphobia sugar coated with a faux "But think of the kids!"

Raskell said:

Stop please. I'm not debating sources with you.

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That's a bit sexist.

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You're a white male, correct? So how are you ever going to experience a pregnancy and the struggle that comes with that? Biologically you can't and never will, unless science improves in your lifetime. It's exactly why the orange ballsack and his 'Dad's Army' needs to open his eyes and realise that trans people exist and DESERVE the same rights as cis people. Cis people cannot say that trans people aren't oppressed. SO MANY PEOPLe have said this before me.

My point still stands, don't bring raw fish to a debate about cooked ones. Facts and sources, not opinions.