Which do you value more?
- Thread starter moonford
- Start date
lol I know why this was made
life above all
life above all
Red Cat
On-and-off member
Don't soldiers who die in war basically sacrifice their life for the constitution? So I guess some people value the constitution more. If we had anarchy, most of us would probably be dead anyway or at best our lives would really suck, so I guess there is reason to follow the rule of law even if it means some lives are lost.
that we should bring the constitution to life as a real world frankenstein's monster?
Absolutely!!!!!
The Constitution was written by a group of men who couldn't even understand that slavery was wrong. I value many of the ideas that the founding fathers put in (like separation of church and state) but the document most certainly isn't the pinnacle of all and shouldn't be obeyed without question.
i'll put it this way. the constitution should only be valuable if used as the malleable document it's intended to be, to expand progressive democracy and human rights. so i value human rights more obviously; the Constitution is only useful as a tool to do so. i say human rights because i know some joker is gonna try to make strawmen with abortion or "religious freedom" or some "waah liberals aren't tolerant of intolerance" and "here's the bits of dubious libertarian ethics that support my narrative"
when someone says they value the constitution more as a retort to "how couldn't you care about a marginalized group of people" ... i think they're just lacking a spine. if you don't have the guts to say "as long as i'm good, suffering doesn't bother me" or be upfront that you don't support a groups inherent right to have the same privileges because you wanna have a contrarian alt-righty opinion without getting too called out, don't bother because i'm a big girl, nearly 24, i and anyone who has something to lose sees right through it.
also i don't think whiteflamingos saying a document ensuring rights isn't important, if i understand them correctly they're asking about priorities. because the constitution doesn't always look out for everyone and takes a while to amend to reflect social changes, e.g. abolishing slavery, suffrage, the voting age, disabled rights, lgtbqa rights (which affects me and my community and even cis people who date transwomen [or any gender identity or lack of] like me so obviously it's irrational to value it over immediate human issues and sometimes you have to buck constitutional intransigence.
problem is the american right practically worships the thing and we can't get evolved, so it's really no wonder we americans look like unhinged doofuses to europeans and others, because you not only have the right wing shenanigans, the bulk of americans don't even understand the constitution and warp them into stuff like "it's perfectly natural to have guns everywhere"
as an american girl i really have to apologize to the whole planet really..
tl;dr basically yeah human lives
when someone says they value the constitution more as a retort to "how couldn't you care about a marginalized group of people" ... i think they're just lacking a spine. if you don't have the guts to say "as long as i'm good, suffering doesn't bother me" or be upfront that you don't support a groups inherent right to have the same privileges because you wanna have a contrarian alt-righty opinion without getting too called out, don't bother because i'm a big girl, nearly 24, i and anyone who has something to lose sees right through it.
also i don't think whiteflamingos saying a document ensuring rights isn't important, if i understand them correctly they're asking about priorities. because the constitution doesn't always look out for everyone and takes a while to amend to reflect social changes, e.g. abolishing slavery, suffrage, the voting age, disabled rights, lgtbqa rights (which affects me and my community and even cis people who date transwomen [or any gender identity or lack of] like me so obviously it's irrational to value it over immediate human issues and sometimes you have to buck constitutional intransigence.
problem is the american right practically worships the thing and we can't get evolved, so it's really no wonder we americans look like unhinged doofuses to europeans and others, because you not only have the right wing shenanigans, the bulk of americans don't even understand the constitution and warp them into stuff like "it's perfectly natural to have guns everywhere"
as an american girl i really have to apologize to the whole planet really..
tl;dr basically yeah human lives
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GrayScreen
Senior Member
Um, last I checked, the constitution was a document that was drafted to suit the needs of the people. If the constitution is detrimental to the people, then it's not a very good constitution. (Which is why we have amendments.) Laws and the constitution are not the exact thing, and making amendments to the constitution is not the same as anarchy. (Which I also don't support.) I would like to believe that people in this country would respect the needs and rights of their fellow citizens more then an (regretfully) outdated construct.
I know exactly which thread prompted this question, lol. I'm really tired of people using the constitution as a reason for why we should allow the mistreatment of vast majorities of people. Just straight up say you hate women/LGBT individuals/immigrants/racial diversity/education/children/whatever. At least you get points for being honest then.
I know exactly which thread prompted this question, lol. I'm really tired of people using the constitution as a reason for why we should allow the mistreatment of vast majorities of people. Just straight up say you hate women/LGBT individuals/immigrants/racial diversity/education/children/whatever. At least you get points for being honest then.
DJStarstryker
Senior Member
They do... but they also don't.
I have friends who are in the military. Not all of them signed up necessarily because they're super patriotic or want to die for freedom. Some of them signed up because they needed a job. Because the military was offering to pay for their college.
Remember - ever since the Vietnam War ended, and thus the last major war the US was involved in, most people who join the military are actually never placed in any real danger. For example, I have a friend in the Navy who has served on aircraft carriers and submarines. The most dangerous thing he has encountered was bad food and boredom.
Army and Marines are more likely to encounter danger, but even most of them generally are pushing paperwork or doing boring guard duty most of the time.
Anyway... yeah. This topic is kinda weird.
human life, totally... and even happiness. for example, if the constitution says that marriage is between men and women only... man, thats a load of crap. if there's anything hurting people in that document then i can't support it, at least not that part.
Nuclear Bingo
Senior Member
It's complicated. I think like what Red Cat said. People volunteer to die in defense of their country. In North America, at least.It depends on the state of the country and who or what the constitution defends. As for USA I would say the constitution. I'm not in the military, but in the case of a world war or something that requires a draft, I'd like to think I would gladly die for the folks back home
perhaps I misunderstood the prompt if this is about LGBT rights as other people are mentioning. oh well
perhaps I misunderstood the prompt if this is about LGBT rights as other people are mentioning. oh well
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