death penalty

LinkToTheWorld · Jul 30, 2016

Reindeer said:
People are mentioning the possibility of a mental illness in such criminals to make people rethink their rigid stance on the death penalty, not using it as an excuse for the criminals' actions. Nobody has said "people only rape kill because they're mentally ill", or even implied it, so don't act like they did.

It has been said we should feel compassion because of the possibility of somebody having a mental illness....as of that would excuse their behaviour or change anything.

I would rather have compassion for the victims, personally.

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Nightmares said:
I'm sorry, but what the heck you talking about? o:

I was replying to another poster
have no idea why your quote also appeared at the top

visibleghost · Jul 30, 2016

LinkToTheWorld said:
It has been said we should feel compassion because of the possibility of somebody having a mental illness....as of that would excuse their behaviour or change anything.

I would rather have compassion for the victims, personally.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I was replying to another poster
have no idea why your quote also appeared at the top

u dont have to feel compassion just dont kill them lmao

LinkToTheWorld · Jul 30, 2016

visibleghost said:
u dont have to feel compassion just dont kill them lmao

Oh

That made me laugh....

Bunnilla · Jul 30, 2016

yeah I think pretty much anyone who killed someone and not in self defense, like a robbery or a kidnapper, should die. They don't know how much pain they inflict on the family.

If they don't ever do it again and COMPLETELY change, if they let them be supervised to the point where they make a change, they should be given a chance.

Sadly, this is not most cases.

oath2order · Jul 30, 2016

FleshyBro said:
Exactly, nor do I. In the case of petty/minor offenses (drugs, shoplifting, etc) then yes, education and rehabilitation should be seriously pushed for. But Education isn't essential for life, education is a privilege. Extremely violent/dangerous criminals should be punished, not given privileges, even if they were, it's pointless, they likely won't show legitimate remorse. I find this push for education for said criminals ridiculous.

Education should be a right

visibleghost · Jul 30, 2016

oath2order said:
Education should be a right

basic education is a human right according to the UN.

Fleshy · Jul 30, 2016

oath2order said:
Education should be a right

It is, basic education is a fundamental human right. A basic school education is completely separate from what I was discussing. The type of education that many prisoners receive in prisons for free is the type that the majority of people don't receive, that type of education is given with the end goal of rehabilitation, I don't think money should be spent on that form of education for extremely dangerous, violent and non-remorseful prisoners that will not ever be back in the general population when it could be given to under-privileged children and young people, or homeless people.

LinkToTheWorld · Jul 30, 2016

ShayminSkies said:
yeah I think pretty much anyone who killed someone and not in self defense, like a robbery or a kidnapper, should die. They don't know how much pain they inflict on the family.

If they don't ever do it again and COMPLETELY change, if they let them be supervised to the point where they make a change, they should be given a chance.

Sadly, this is not most cases.

FleshyBro said:
It is, basic education is a fundamental human right. A basic school education is completely separate from what I was discussing. The type of education that many prisoners receive in prisons for free is the type that the majority of people don't receive, that type of education is given with the end goal of rehabilitation, I don't think money should be spent on that form of education for extremely dangerous, violent and non-remorseful prisoners that will not ever be back in the general population when it could be given to under-privileged children and young people, or homeless people.

Exactly right. Basic education is one thing, reading/writing/etc.
But to be given a higher education than people who have lived their lives within the law can't even afford? Just isn't fair at all.

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Sorry, have no idea why I end up double quoting

visibleghost · Jul 30, 2016

LinkToTheWorld said:
Exactly right. Basic education is one thing, reading/writing/etc.
But to be given a higher education than people who have lived their lives within the law can't even afford? Just isn't fair at all.

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Sorry, have no idea why I end up double quoting

in sweden most universities are completely free, so going to prison won't pay your college tuition here because it's already paid. idk but uh

and i can sort of agree that it seems weird that prisoners who are never going to get out of prison get higher education but idk lmao

oath2order · Jul 30, 2016

kayleee said:
Okay thanks for your unsolicited suggestion

We can say the same thing for you.

What the hell though? Nobody deserves forcibly mutilation for a crime. Death penalty, fine. But chopping a limb off? Piss off that's insane. Goes way beyond the realm of cruel and unusual punishment

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LinkToTheWorld said:
It has been said we should feel compassion because of the possibility of somebody having a mental illness....as of that would excuse their behaviour or change anything.

I would rather have compassion for the victims, personally.

- - - Post Merge - - -

I was replying to another poster
have no idea why your quote also appeared at the top

Mental illness, depending on the severity and if it's untreated or not, is an excuse. If someone suffers from severe anger issues, auditory and/or visual hallucinations, and it's untreated, you can say that they were not in control of their actions, their mental disorder that they cannot control was. You have more compassion for the victim, yes, but I don't think hating the severely mentally handicapped criminals is the best way to go.

GalacticGhost · Jul 30, 2016

tbh i'm against it. yes, i know some people out there can (and have done) absolutely horrendous things, but does it really make the government themselves any better if they choose to end the life of someone because of what they've done? i don't really think so. sure, they may be doing it to make sure that nobody else gets hurt by someone, but... that doesn't change the fact that they're killing them through capital punishment.

also, it's possible for somebody to be punished through capital punishment, only for people to realise afterwards that that person never did anything at all. and you can't really release them to live their life as normal if they're dead.

radical6 · Jul 30, 2016

GUYS NO ONE THINKS DRUG USERS OR THIEVES SHOULD DIE ITS THE PEOPLE WHO KILL MASS GROUPS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! why do people think just cos were pro death that we want EVERYONE in prison to die. mass killers are NEVER going to go back to society. EVER. there is literally no way to rehabilitate them. they will be locked up forever. they usually kill themselves or go insane from being locked up 23 hours a day -_-

Red Cat · Jul 30, 2016

FleshyBro said:
As I've said, I am completely against the death penalty. However, the serious attempt to sympathise with and humanise serious offenders is a little scary, yes violent and dangerous criminals are complex humans but that doesn't mean they deserve sympathy and care (in my opinion). I'm never, ever, going to show any type of compassion at all to a rapist or someone who has abused a child. I don't care who they are or what their motives were, they won't get an ounce of sympathy or compassion from me. I believe they deserve to die. (that however does not mean that I believe their murder should be legal though, because I don't).

By constantly finding any means to defend such offenders it comes across as trivialising victims suffering and siding with said criminals. During this discussion I've seen quite a few people saying that such criminals are "still people", "deserve another chance", "don't deserve their human rights taken away" and suchlike, I don't understand that thought process, why show compassion to rapists, serial murders and child abusers?

If someone commits a horrific crime like rape or murder, that person gets thrown in prison for most if not all of his/her life. Prisoners do lose most of their rights. They can't go anywhere outside the prison and they can't communicate with loved ones except in occasional, monitored situations. They don't get to control much of anything in their lives. They absolutely deserve that as punishment for their crimes. They do not become animals though. We don't starve, torture, or kill our prisoners in a civilized society. We show prisoners a basic level of human respect and dignity because we're better than them. Just because they choose to become monsters when they commit crimes like rape and murder doesn't mean we should become monsters in the way we treat them. Otherwise we are basically saying that the same blood-thirst which caused them to commit crimes exists in all of us, only that we choose to satisfy that blood-thirst in a legally sanctioned way.

LinkToTheWorld · Jul 30, 2016

kallie said:
GUYS NO ONE THINKS DRUG USERS OR THIEVES SHOULD DIE ITS THE PEOPLE WHO KILL MASS GROUPS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! why do people think just cos were pro death that we want EVERYONE in prison to die. mass killers are NEVER going to go back to society. EVER. there is literally no way to rehabilitate them. they will be locked up forever. they usually kill themselves or go insane from being locked up 23 hours a day -_-

Actually, that's another good point. Over here people don't get massive life sentences, but in places throughout America I know they sometimes do. How many of them kill themselves while serving these huge sentences? Just wondering now if that could actually be considered by some (not me) more inhumane than the death penalty.

Certainly on this country it's no issue for them. You rape and abuse someone, even a child, you don't get anything near to life.
Perhaps if the justice system in this country were different, I would feel different about it. As it is, it doesn't feel like any justice is being done

Red Cat · Jul 30, 2016

kallie said:
GUYS NO ONE THINKS DRUG USERS OR THIEVES SHOULD DIE ITS THE PEOPLE WHO KILL MASS GROUPS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! why do people think just cos were pro death that we want EVERYONE in prison to die. mass killers are NEVER going to go back to society. EVER. there is literally no way to rehabilitate them. they will be locked up forever. they usually kill themselves or go insane from being locked up 23 hours a day -_-

Do you have actual data to back that up? Or is this like a Trump tweet where you just use a bunch of caps and made-up ****?

According to NPR, suicides make up only 6% of prison inmate deaths in the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/2015/07/27/426742309/the-shock-of-confinement-the-grim-reality-of-suicide-in-jail

Cariicarky · Jul 30, 2016

my problem with it is that there have been cases where someone received the death penalty but it was discovered later that they didn't actually commit the crime. at least if someone was falsely accused of a crime and was arrested they can be set free, but you can't bring someone back to life

ams · Jul 30, 2016

I'm absolutely for it. It's easy for average people to feel that it's enough to lock up rapists and murderers so that they can't hurt people anymore, but what's often forgotten is that the other prisoners and the corrections workers are still being abused by the worst criminals. I've known people who work in corrections and they're sexually harassed, have bodily fluids thrown at them, and can also be physically harmed. Other prisoners are often raped and murdered. For those who feel that the death penalty is wrong because it is treating prisoners as less than human, how can you not see that subjecting the less violent criminals and corrections employees to the most dangerous people in our society is treating them as less than human? Out of sight out of mind I guess.

oath2order · Jul 30, 2016

Cariicarky said:
my problem with it is that there have been cases where someone received the death penalty but it was discovered later that they didn't actually commit the crime. at least if someone was falsely accused of a crime and was arrested they can be set free, but you can't bring someone back to life

TROY.

ANTHONY.

DAVIS.

That case set me against the death penalty.

Celestefey · Jul 30, 2016

kallie said:
GUYS NO ONE THINKS DRUG USERS OR THIEVES SHOULD DIE ITS THE PEOPLE WHO KILL MASS GROUPS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! why do people think just cos were pro death that we want EVERYONE in prison to die. mass killers are NEVER going to go back to society. EVER. there is literally no way to rehabilitate them. they will be locked up forever. they usually kill themselves or go insane from being locked up 23 hours a day -_-

That is understandable, but literally... Like... How are we supposed to judge when someone is supposed to die or not? Where do we draw the line? How do we decide what crimes deserve the punishment of the death penalty? Do we believe that anyone who murders should receive the death penalty, or should we leave that to mass murderers and etc? It's a really fine line, and I feel like, in my opinion, it's too hard to know who deserves to die or not. Yeah, some people may be beyond rehabilitation, but do they still deserve to die because of their actions? Are we not just as bad for killing these people in the name of justice? I don't know how to feel on the issue at all, I think I'm against it, but I feel there's just too many questions and moral dilemmas that'd arise from this so I think it's too risky to really go for it. And like Cariicarky stated - what about in cases where someone has received the death penalty even though they were innocent? I feel like that's what puts me against it. You can't just bring somebody back to life.

Red Cat · Jul 30, 2016

ams said:
I'm absolutely for it. It's easy for average people to feel that it's enough to lock up rapists and murderers so that they can't hurt people anymore, but what's often forgotten is that the other prisoners and the corrections workers are still being abused by the worst criminals. I've known people who work in corrections and they're sexually harassed, have bodily fluids thrown at them, and can also be physically harmed. Other prisoners are often raped and murdered. For those who feel that the death penalty is wrong because it is treating prisoners as less than human, how can you not see that subjecting the less violent criminals and corrections employees to the most dangerous people in our society is treating them as less than human? Out of sight out of mind I guess.

If corrections workers are having bodily fluids thrown at them and being physically harmed, then there is something wrong with the prison that would leave corrections officers vulnerable like that. It would be better to fix the prisons so that corrections officers are safe rather than kill the inmates because the only way killing inmates would keep corrections officers safe would be to kill every inmate which would defeat the purpose of having a prison in the first place. Also, the point of solitary confinement is to keep the "most" dangerous inmates away from the "less" dangerous ones. So there are ways to solve those problems which are more effective than the death penalty.

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