death penalty

Miii · Jul 29, 2016

FleshyBro said:
A question to people who agree with the death penalty, if someone kills the person who killed their mother, should they be sentenced to death? If someone kills an intruder in their home, should they be sentenced to death? If someone kills the person who abused them, should they be sentenced to death?...

If we start to excuse some motives for murder, where do we draw the line? The lines are blurred, that's not something we should mess with.

If they kill the person that killed their mom, no they shouldn't be sentenced to death; they should get jail time and a hefty fine for breaking the law, and to set an example for others in that situation, so they don't see that revenge based crime going unpunished.

If they kill an intruder in their home, they definitely shouldn't be sentenced to death. Of course this depends on the situation, but in some cases, I wouldn't even say they should get prison time for that. If someone breaks into your home, you don't know what their intentions are; they could be there just to steal from you, but they could also be there to kill you and everyone else in the house and then steal from you. If they don't want to risk being shot, they shouldn't break into someone's house in the first place.

As for killing the person that's abusing you, what their punishment should be depends on the situation. If you kill them while they're actively physically harming you, then that's self defense. If you wait until they're asleep, then kill them, it's premeditated murder, which they'd get jail time for. If you kill someone in self defense, no, you should not get the death penalty. If you kill someone that has abused you while they're not actively abusing you, I'd say you should get prison time and a fine (which is what they would get, anyway).

Gregriii · Jul 29, 2016

Whiteflamingo said:
I don't, they need help. That's ignorant.

I mean those who have killed, and yes, I'm putting all the murderers into the "psychopath" group nd it an be somewhat ignorant. Yes I know u dont need to be a psychopath to kill

but what kind of person kills without any motive? A pyschopath? And those Id say are the ones who should get killed by death penalti

Idk If I explained myself but oh well

nvll said:
blah blah

Can you and stop asuming all the things I say are bait? Thanks sweetie

seliph · Jul 29, 2016

Reindeer said:
Basically, people that were told "rape this girl or your family dies".

My point is that there's always a story behind why and how things happened. Like your example of people that might kill out of self-defense, people could also have involuntary circumstances where they end up raping a person, even if it's something they don't agree with (I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned peer pressure). Yet with what you said, you don't appear to see these nuances, but in black and white when it comes to sexual violence.
That's also what makes it so dangerous. At which point, to you and others that support the death penalty for rapists, are such people not rapists and victims of others instead?

Me multiple times throughout the thread: I don't really support the death penalty but I believe some people deserve to die
Yall: why do u defend the death penalty!!!!

Anyways in that case I'd put it the same way as before, the person holding them hostage or forcing them to do whatever is the offender and they deserve the title of rapist.

riummi · Jul 29, 2016

FleshyBro said:
A question to people who agree with the death penalty, if someone kills the person who killed their mother, should they be sentenced to death? If someone kills an intruder in their home, should they be sentenced to death? If someone kills the person who abused them, should they be sentenced to death?...

If we start to excuse some motives for murder, where do we draw the line? The lines are blurred, that's not something we should mess with.

well ofc it matters on whether or not it was self defense. I'm not saying that every crime involving murder/killing someone deserves a death penalty. I think those that kill just for fun with no reason at all should get the death penalty. Everything else is up for debate in my opinion.

mogyay · Jul 29, 2016

Gregriii said:
I mean those who have killed, and yes, I'm putting all the murderers into the "psychopath" group nd it an be somewhat ignorant. Yes I know u dont need to be a psychopath to kill

but what kind of person kills without any motive? A pyschopath? And those Id say are the ones who should get killed by death penalti

Idk If I explained myself but oh well

Can you and stop asuming all the things I say are bait? Thanks sweetie

ye for once i think you're actually just that ignorant and think psychopath = murder

Gregriii · Jul 29, 2016

mogyay said:
ye for once i think you're actually just that ignorant and think psychopath = murder

you read that wrong oopsie

I said killers without any reason at all are psychopaths

Cory · Jul 29, 2016

FleshyBro said:
By agreeing with the death penalty you too are "okay with murder".

What? It's murder for a good reason.

Fleshy · Jul 29, 2016

Cory said:
What? It's murder for a good reason.

It's still murder. Murderers will often say they killed for good reason. As people have said many times, morality and reasoning are subjective.

Tensu · Jul 29, 2016

Cory said:
What? It's murder for a good reason.

Not really. It would be cheaper and more effective to educate the person in prison rather to have them killed, which is equally wrong as what the jailed person did.

Miii · Jul 29, 2016

FleshyBro said:
It's still murder. Murderers will often say they killed for good reason. As people have said many times, morality and reasoning are subjective.

They are subjective, but again, why let someone that's done something terrible like stabbing a bunch of people (ugh this is getting repetitive) keep living only to have to pay for them to be alive, and to risk them being able to do what they did again? Why not take that threat away permanently, and eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society?

- - - Post Merge - - -

Azure said:
Not really. It would be cheaper and more effective to educate the person in prison rather to have them killed, which is equally wrong as what the jailed person did.

Educate them??? Surely anyone that murders another person (not in self defense), knows that what they're doing wrong. They know it's wrong, and choose to try and get away with it anyway. I mean I hate to say you're not giving a criminal enough credit, but damn. They can't be that stupid.

Cory · Jul 29, 2016

FleshyBro said:
It's still murder. Murderers will often say they killed for good reason. As people have said many times, morality and reasoning are subjective.

What a good reason besides self-defense?

oath2order · Jul 29, 2016

Cory said:
What a good reason besides self-defense?

Good reasoning is subjective.

Tensu · Jul 29, 2016

Miii said:
They are subjective, but again, why let someone that's done something terrible like stabbing a bunch of people (ugh this is getting repetitive) keep living only to have to pay for them to be alive, and to risk them being able to do what they did again? Why not take that threat away permanently, and eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society?

First of all. You are not "paying extra to keep them alive". It actually costs more to kill them. Read below.

oath2order said:
I live in Maryland. It cost Maryland $186 million for the five executions it did between 1976 and 2005. It cost Maryland an addition $71 million for cases that sought the death penalty but did not actually get it.

This money could have gone elsewhere, it could have gone to crime prevention programs, to education, to literally anything else that might have stopped someone from becoming a murderer.

Second, it would be a lot easier to "eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society" by educating them. It is more cost-effective and subjectively morally just to many people.

Cudon · Jul 29, 2016

Miii said:
They are subjective, but again, why let someone that's done something terrible like stabbing a bunch of people (ugh this is getting repetitive) keep living only to have to pay for them to be alive, and to risk them being able to do what they did again? Why not take that threat away permanently, and eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society?

- - - Post Merge - - -

Educate them??? Surely anyone that murders another person (not in self defense), knows that what they're doing wrong. They know it's wrong, and choose to try and get away with it anyway. I mean I hate to say you're not giving a criminal enough credit, but damn. They can't be that stupid.

Can you say for sure that the death penalty is cheaper to do than just letting people rot in jail though? Cuz pretty sure someone just a lil bit ago made the death penalty sound raather costly and inefficient. Also rehabilitation is a possibility and as far as I'm aware it works and is used for a reason.

And actually no, some people have a really skewed sense of reality and might not think it's wrong. They might also think what they're doing is justified through some flawed logic or a weird sense of reality. Let's use the person who stabbed a bunch of mentally ill people as an example. He said he did it since he felt bad for the mentally ill.

Some criminals can also be taught to think and act a certain way by their parents, which can lead to them having a ****ed up way of thinking. For example, if some family decided to teach their male child that it is 100% okay to treat females as objects, the child would have a rather high likelihood of growing up to think this. There are legit people out there who think that raping females is okay because females are property to them.

Cory · Jul 29, 2016

Azure said:
First of all. You are not "paying extra to keep them alive". It actually costs more to kill them. Read below.

Second, it would be a lot easier to "eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society" by educating them. It is more cost-effective and subjectively morally just to many people.

They won't get educated. That's extremely ineffective. Most of the time they're in phases in and out of prison because they get pressured by other prisoners to do bad things unless they are in solitary, but you can't put all prisoners in solitary.

Gregriii · Jul 29, 2016

Azure said:
First of all. You are not "paying extra to keep them alive". It actually costs more to kill them. Read below.

Second, it would be a lot easier to "eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society" by educating them. It is more cost-effective and subjectively morally just to many people.

But maybe some people reach a point were they just can't get educated? I mean, at the end, educating is convincing

I mean, if sometimes we give up on animals why cant we give up on humans? I believe death penalty shouldnt be a thing cause u can always reeducate but if you cant do that because any reason...

- - - Post Merge - - -

Cory said:
They won't get educated. That's extremely ineffective. Most of the time they're in phases in and out of prison because they get pressured by other prisoners to do bad things unless they are in solitary, but you can't put all prisoners in solitary.

Why not? Why can't we give them a chance?

seliph · Jul 29, 2016

Can someone explain how murderers can be "educated" to never offend again 'cause I really don't get how that could be a solution.

Fleshy · Jul 29, 2016

Miii said:
They are subjective, but again, why let someone that's done something terrible like stabbing a bunch of people (ugh this is getting repetitive) keep living only to have to pay for them to be alive, and to risk them being able to do what they did again? Why not take that threat away permanently, and eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society?

Life imprisonment in a high security facility eliminates the risk of re-offending.

Upon serching costs, I found that it costs on average $34,000 per prisoner per year, and it costs on average $1,260,000 for each successful death penalty case. It also costs $90,000 more per year for a prisoner on death row than the rest of the prision population. This was just quickly found information, so I'm not declaring it valid, I plan on looking into it further later. Anyway, it looks like it's pretty expensive either way. If we should go for the cheapest option, just not punishing criminals at all would be that.

Why should we advocate murder when there are other reasonable options?

Tensu · Jul 29, 2016

Gregriii said:
But maybe some people reach a point were they just can't get educated? I mean, at the end, educating is convincing

I mean, if sometimes we give up on animals why cant we give up on humans? I believe death penalty shouldnt be a thing cause u can always reeducate but if you cant do that because any reason...

In that case, if all appropriate efforts really have been made, just keep them in jail for life. They can't harm anyone there.

Miii · Jul 29, 2016

Azure said:
First of all. You are not "paying extra to keep them alive". It actually costs more to kill them. Read below.

Second, it would be a lot easier to "eliminate the worst, most violent people in our society" by educating them. It is more cost-effective and subjectively morally just to many people.

But they already know that what they did was wrong. We all know that other human beings feel pain just like we do and we know that if we do certain things to them, they'll no longer be living. What is there to educate them on???

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