Are you Feminist or Feminazi?

visibleghost said:

the thing is that that's what feminism is. sexism, hypermasculinity and gender roles hurt everyone. not only women, although women are oppressed while men are just badly affected. (as in women get paid less, women are more likely to be sexually abused etc etc etc)

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How are women in the west oppressed? They can say what they want, wear what they want, have sex with what they want, take any job they want, choose to have children or not, they can vote, they can drive a car, they can go anywhere they want without accompaniment... How is that oppressed?
You want to see an oppressed woman, go to the Middle East.

As for this argument:

visibleghost said:

women get paid less

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Any feminist that uses this kind of misinformation just comes across as utterly stupid. Companies would only hire women if they could get away with paying them all less. The supposed "wage gap" comes from a study that aggregates the incomes of men and women across all fields, and only looks at the amount of money they get. Once personal choices on both sides are taken into account (which education, which job, how often they take time off work, how often they ask for a raise or promotion, etc.), the "wage gap" closes entirely. Women don't get paid less, they make different choices.

visibleghost said:

and another thing. a big part of why men are affected by sexism is because of misogyny. (if men aren't masculine enough they will get called girls as insults lmao. hypermasculinity is sexist and hurts people of all genders.)

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From misogyny? It's not some hatred of women that is affecting men, they're just toxic assumptions of men being tough, sex-crazed, and most of all stupid.

Apart from that, I don't understand why people are trying to sell misogyny as some huge systematic problem in the western world. If hatred of women was so rampant, why aren't women receiving much higher sentences than men? At the moment, men are the ones who receive higher sentences on everything, from murder and rape to petty theft. That's just one example of why I don't buy it.
You want to see misogyny, go to the Middle East. If a woman gets raped there, she's the one that has to pay a fine and sit in jail.

nvll said:

Who came up with an actual plan for male genocide...

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People like Valerie Solanas, who wrote SCUM Manifesto back in 1967.

Whiteflamingo said:

Can you leave me alon grammar police, people make mistakes.

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ok.

Anyways yeah i'm the troll who chose feminazi because why not

Women have equal rights to men right now. Women are just looking for **** to complain about.

Feminist! All people, regardless of gender, deserve equal rights.

As much as I hate to admit it, Miii has a few good points.

Miii said:

I'm not a feminist because I don't think women need any more rights than they already have in America. Women are not mistreated, or treated as less in this country. In fact, women have it SO much easier than men. Here's a list of why I don't think we need feminism and more rights for women in America (I'm all for it in developing countries where it's actually needed).

1. Women will almost always win a custody case against her child's father.
2. Women can choose to terminate their pregnancy without considering how the father of her unborn child may feel about it, but he'll be forced to pay child support if she chooses to keep it, even if he doesn't want to be a parent.
3. If a man can't afford to pay child support, the mother can choose to file charges and put him in jail, but if she isn't making enough money to support her children, she gets government assistance.
4. Men make up almost all workplace fatalities and workplace injuries because they occupy more dangerous, but necessary positions.
5. Men are homeless far more often than women.
6. At the age of 18, a male has to sign up for the draft, meaning that if we were to go to war, he may have to risk his life, while women wouldn't have to.
7. Women can be as emotional as they want and talk about their feelings as much as they want, but if a man does it more often than rarely, he's a *****.
8. If a women is overweight or obese she has "curves" and calling her fat is "fat shaming", while an overweight or obese man is just another gross neckbeard that needs to work out and quit playing video games all day.
9. Men are raped more often than women (including prison statistics), yet they're far less likely to have a rape or sexual assault accusation taken seriously, and on that note, a woman can decide the day after she sleeps with a man that she regrets it, and she can accuse him of raping her (remember mattress girl?) and ruin his reputation even if he's not convicted.
10. Domestic violence rates for men on women, women on men and even women on women are about equal, yet a woman is far more likely to have a domestic violence accusation taken seriously. When a man says his wife is abusing him, he'll probably be asked something along the lines of "What'd you do to piss her off?". And if a man defends himself by hitting a girl back when she hits him, he's the bad guy who should have just restrained her because he's stronger.
11. Feminists like to go on and on about how overly sexualized women are in the media, and how unrealistic beauty standards for women are when they're the same for men. I don't see any fat male marvel super heroes. I don't see any fat or average looking male models. Male video game characters are unrealistically strong and muscular, too, but no, people only freak out when Tracer's butt is too visible when she's posing.
12. The education system is tailored to fit girls' learning needs, not boys'.
13. Men tend to work longer hours, go for more lucrative careers and work more overtime, but instead of being rewarded and praised for their hard work, they get told they just have male privilege and that the wage gap has everything to do with that (which is bull****).
14. Men are more likely to go to prison than a woman for the exact same crime. Men are also likely to get a harsher, longer sentence for the same crime.
15. If a man finds a women attractive and tells her so, he's objectifying her, but if he doesn't find her attractive, he's shallow, or he's a pig.
16. Men that choose progressing their careers over spending time with their families are deemed immoral and selfish, while women that do the same are empowered.
17. If a man tries to be a gentleman, he's chauvinistic, but if he's doesn't he's rude. There's just no winning with feminists...
18. Men are more often the victims of assault.
19. Men make up the majority of drug addicts (Hmmmm maybe because they aren't allowed to express their feelings without being a whiney little *****? Nah that couldn't possibly have anything to do with it).
20. And finally, if I were a man saying any of this, I'd be called a misogynistic, woman-oppressing ******* that only says all of this to preserve the patriarchy.

So. I think that if you're a real feminist that actually cares about the rights of oppressed women, you should pack up and move somewhere your ideology could actually benefit them.

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i guess this would explain why i'm not a feminist (poll said to explain so..), never really had any interest in being passionate about it, but women get angry at me for saying that. plus i hate how men's issues get ignored, that's why.

Why would anyone admit to being a feminazi? Pretty sure most feminazis themselves just go by feminist.

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Elin said:

i guess this would explain why i'm not a feminist (poll said to explain so..), never really had any interest in being passionate about it, but women get angry at me for saying that. plus i hate how men's issues get ignored, that's why.

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Yeah, I've also always had a bad taste in my mouth about feminism often ignoring/denying these issues.

ok so @ mii's post, i'll only reply to the ones i feel like i can reply to

1. true, but that doesn't mean women are So Much More priveleged than men.
2. that's only including cis women but uh yeah. that's only fair tho..? ppl who get pregnant shpuld get to choose if to keep or not to keep it. and honestly that's one of very few things that are in favor of women when it comes to children. a lot of ppl are tryig to resteict abortion etc and women are usually treated badly bc of other thimgs w children. n it's not Just That Easy to get an anortipn for everyone lmao
3. cant reply to this because idk anything anout it rly.. but couldnt it be the other way around when a father has custody.. (while more women are single parents than men)
4. that's not due to sexism tho. unsafe work environments.....
5. sources? also, it is important to think about why. is it bwcause they're men? or other reasons?
6. is that still a thing in america.... ok pls get rid of that
7. that's bwcause of sexism and hypermasculinity. men arent "manly enough" if theyre showing emotion. that's gross and feminism is trying to stop it.
8. ... n no.. yes, feminists and other ppl often try to stop the fat shaming of women because they are so bullied and attacked. this goes for fat people of any gender, they are very often shamed and bullied.
but women's worth in society's eyes is because of their looks. women who are seen as ugly are told they need to lopk better for anyone to dver love them. for men ppl think that they judt need to accept themselves. ssso ppl are trying to focus on body ?ositivity for women because they're so shamed in society
9. a) pls sources.
b) yeah that men arent believed is a huge problem and something feminism is trying to fix
c) the very few false accusatipns of rape shouldn't be a reason why feminism isn't needed.
10. again, men not being believdd is a big problem. buut it has its origin in sexist ideas (men should have mkre power over a woman). also pls sources lmao i sound rly annoying probably but i'm geniounly curious
11. not a reason to why feminism idnt needed tho.....???? women are rly badly portrayed in media. marginalized groups of men (sexuality, race, disabilities, fat etc) are badly represented too. this is not rly about sexism but rsther about homophobia, racism, ableism n fat shaming.
12. how?
13. but if it is proved that women get paid less for literally the same job then... well..... i mean.... (also the wage gap discussion is rly Meh bc racism exists so white women vs white men is usually the numbers shown, when women of color are paid much less. (so are men of color))
14. cant talk abt this bc idk a lot but maybe the law sustem thingy needs a bit of work, at least thats what it seems like to me
15. there are many ways to tell a woman she's attractive w/o being a creep. and not finding her attractive doesnt mean you have to tell her lmao that just makes you an ass???
16. women are empowered by feminists is because they have been told to give up everything to care for their family for ages. men have generally not had as much of a Big Family Role in the home since women are accordimg to gender roles supposed to care for babies and stuff.
17. wtf that sounds so "nice guy"-like im dyign
18. and more often the ones who carry out the assault.
19. not a reason to why feminism isnt needed?? and mental illness going untreated is a very big reason to why ppl turn to addiction
20. well, you seem to have a bit of imternalized sexism in u :^p but honestly yeah w/e but you haben't mentioned women's issues and im dying npw so im just going to stop writing but Yeeeaj you missed a lot of points where feminism is needed

Neither. Feminism isn't needed in my country. Women tend to have more rights actually while men's issues are ignored. Sexism is never going to die just like racism. A guy making you feel uncomfortable or making sexist jokes is a first world problem that only whiny suburban babies care about. Meanwhile real feminism is needed in other parts of the world where women actually have no rights.

Xerolin said:

*looks at mom*
lol nope

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*looks for dad*
lol yup

visibleghost said:

18. and more often the ones who carry out the assault.

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Yea but the men being assaulted likely aren't going to be the same ones doing the assaulting, and they're usually the ones more likely to be assaulted in the first place because it's "not okay to hit a woman, but it's fine to hit a man".

This whole thread though...

Not today, Satan.

Tao said:

*looks for dad*
lol yup



Yea but the men being assaulted likely aren't going to be the same ones doing the assaulting, and they're usually the ones more likely to be assaulted in the first place because it's "not okay to hit a woman, but it's fine to hit a man".

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that's true, but it's not sexism towards men. it's about gender stereotypes, hypermasculinity, a culture of violence etc. doesnt mean men are opressed for being men

feminism is people making a big issue over nothing. There are more important things to worry about than the petty "problems" women have.

I'm neither.

Cory said:

feminism is people making a big issue over nothing. There are more important things to worry about than the petty "problems" women have.

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are u being a troll on purpose or something? idk it's not funny btw

My personal stance on this is mixed honestly, it's confusing. Feminism was definitely needed and very successful in the 50's and before that, and is still very much needed in non-western countries. However, in recent years "feminism" doesn't mean what it used to mean and there's so many new rules and it's usually just radfems complaining about nothing because they don't get enough attention. (sorry, I'm referring to the branch of feminism that gains the most media attention and has been spoken negativley of in this thread) terfs/white feminists/radfems also make me super uncomfortable and are detrimental to worldwide feminism as a whole.

Miii said:

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I agree with the majority of what you posted and likewise agree that today's feminism has issues and mainly isn't necessary (to the extent people claim it is) in western countries. However, some points don't make all that much sense and don't really seem like reasons to be against feminism, and more so seem like separate, unrelated issues. I agree with most of the ones I haven't responded to. Men's issues definitely need more recognition and it is disgusting that they are ignored or looked down on in some instances.

2. The first part of this is complicated and is more to do with the rights people have over their own body and abortion as women are the pregnant ones, it's hard to compare, but a man can have a vasectomy without consulting his partner but it's all way more complicated than that.
3. The laws on this vary from country to country, but here, in the UK, my father (after separating with my mother and leaving her with ?100,000+ of his debt) falsely declared himself bankrupt while making a large sum of money monthly. Despite making this amount of money, the CSA sided with him and declared that he didn't have to pay a penny towards my mother and her children, while we were homeless at the time, with a 2 year old child and very little government support. Father's also very often get away with not paying for their children, the way this works is usually equally unfair on both parents, not just the father. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and dealt with separate from feminism.
4. Women are often judged and discriminated against for working, or wanting to work dangerous jobs, therefore less women work said jobs. (I wouldn't think this is really a valid point, but you brought up opinions and judgement when it comes to men's emotions, so I think it's equally as relevant.)
7. Many many feminists think this is unfair, only awful radfems and other men think that men are "pussies" for showing emotion. Women are also called "crybabies" told they have daddy issues, that nobody will date them, their feeling reduced to PMS,etc, for being overemotional, both sexes face this. On the other side, unemotional and cold men are seen as "bosses" and "bros" where as unemotional women are seen as "cold *****es" and told that they'd make terrible mothers. However, I do highly disagree with the general stance society has on male emotions and how they portray emotional men, everyone should be able to be as emotional as they way.
8. Complete generalisation, it's usually radfems and suchlike that think this way, the average person does not. Also, look at the amount of shows that have an overweight husband/man with a thin and attractive wife/girlfriend, very rarely is it sown the other way, usually the woman has to lose weight and then, after loosing weight, is deemed worth of an attractive man.
9. When I look it up most sources seem to state the opposite. However, rape is a massive problem and is so disgusting, regardless of who the victim is. Many people (including feminists) are fighting for the rights and recognition for male victims of rape and sexual assault, and rightfully so. It's awful that men generally aren't taken as seriously, especially if the perpetrator was female.
12. Can you explain this point?
16. Many women are looked down on for putting their work before children/family, whereas men are seen as typical business men. See, half of the points like this you make can be spun either way and still work.
17. Men are also more often the perpetrators of assault. I'm not saying this isn't a problem, because it's a massive problem. Male on female assault is more common than female on male assault. (despite male on male assault being the highest)
10. Who would say that to you? Half of your points are "feminists think this" "women think this, men think this" and are complete generlisations that are not representative of the majority.

mogyay said:

are u being a troll on purpose or something? idk it's not funny btw

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no im serious

Cory said:

feminism is people making a big issue over nothing. There are more important things to worry about than the petty "problems" women have.

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Lol the only reason you say this is because you're a white, republican male. You know nothing about feminism c:

N e s s said:

Lol the only reason you say this is because you're a white, republican male. You know nothing about feminism c:

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lol dont pull out the race and gender card. I'm sorry... what race and gender are you again?

Although you're free to discuss the topic of feminism, asking people if they're "feminazis" isn't going to encourage meaningful discussion. Please structure these topics more appropriately so they don't encourage low quality posts. Thank you.