Mafia TBT Mafia General 2.0 - Setups/Bans/Info/Discussion

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Sensai was modkilled for his mistake. It didn't hold much negative impact for the game and I doubt he did it out of malicious intent, so I feel that the MK is fine enough

I do agree that hosts should reveal any rulebreaking in the game. If it has an effect on the current game, it's fine to wait for post-game, but finding out what happened way later isn't really fair tbh. I get that the MK would have been unfair to me (Dad could have just been removed and replaced tbh), but its important for hosts to share stuff like this
 
I feel like it's unfair to say we took no action or did not make the information public. While admittedly it did happen much too late (the reason we didn't post about it sooner was simply that with the incident happening at the beginning of the game and then two days of forum closure suspending the game, we kind of forgot by the end and got busy with our lives) we did make a temporary discord server with members of the game where we presented the issue in full and discussed what consequences Dad should face. We did not reach a definite conclusion but an attempt was made and many people were made aware of what happened.

I understand Dolby's frustration as the issue is sucky and we didn't deal with it as promptly as we should have, but please understand we did try to spread the word. Dolby himself was in the server we made about the issue, so I am a bit confused as to why he is accusing us of doing nothing. The reason I suggested discussing it on discord instead of posting about it here immediately was simply that I felt bad calling out and humiliating someone on a public forum. I could only envision that starting a flame war or something. I'm sorry if people disagree with any of the decisions I've made but I was doing what I thought was best.

Also, the reason we didn't modkill Dad when we were made aware of the situation was:
1) The fact that he was lovers with Dan
2) Since Sensai was modkilled, Dad no longer had any gamechanging information, so he didn't *need* to be modkilled. It was just a question of integrity that I believed was more worthy of a ban discussion that an immediate modkill.
 
At this point it's getting petty. If this was such an issue you should have reported it to mods but you decided not to take that route, because apparently you think they'll do nothing due to me giving them mod powers in a discord server, so instead of going through official channels you and a few others create an entire discord to discuss getting me banned while continuing not to even go through the mods to let them do their job, all because you jump to the conclusion that they won't do anything due to me modding them:

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Not long ago you made an entire community effort to 'overthrow' the mods because Tina wasn't super active in updating the queue and the ban list was outdated. You assisted in making an entire discord server with me and I gave you moderator power because I was on board with the effort until it became clear you wanted control of the community handed over to you because mods were not showing investment in a community that was suffering inactivity due to what I now think is the accumulation of petty dramas and grudges that inflate into things like this.

The reason I gave Tina and Justin moderation powers for that server was because I had to demote you when you straight up started deleting Toads' input due to your past grudges with him resurfacing and once I talked to Tina like an adult after realizing the error of how we were going about things the mods showed interest in helping update rules and regularly update things. Thus I extended their moderation to the issue by giving them moderation there because they were making an effort to officialize the process, not to 'pocket them' for things like this.

I used the words gamethrowing and a harsher tone like 'keep your mouth shut' as a part of the game and when you left it I told you to try and not take our exchange personally because it was just part of the act of seeming towny when I was scum. Was it wrong of me to hide cheating and chastise someone else for not doing the same in order to gain towncred? Sure, I'll take ownership of it as being against the spirit of the rules given it falls under the aggressive behavior category in the OP. Will I not participate in two games because your lynch mob 'Dad Ban Discussion Server' decided on that as a desired ban-length? Sure, I'll sit out. And if the mods want to officialize it as an infraction I'm fine with that. I wrongly assumed you wouldn't take what I said personally once you knew it was only coming from a place of being a scum tactic. Turns out I was mistaken.

What I'm not okay with was the toxic way in which you have gone about this and gathered everyone in the community who you can get to decently agree with you and approach the situation with a lynch mob rather than go through the proper channels like an adult. It's a pattern with you: you build community ire for a person rather than attempt to talk things out civilly. You did it with Tina and Antonio after the kingmaker game and you are repeating that behavior here.
 
The server was not dolbys idea. It was mine because I thought it was a better alternative than publicly blasting someone. I planned on talking to you once we reached a ban decision. I am sorry for my poor judgement but I was just trying to keep peace. Clearly I didn't do a very good job. Feel free to ##VOTE me out of the cellar or something
 
It doesn't matter that you created the server. Heck, I created the server with the queue issue. The problem is when people use it to build antagonism towards another user and further past issues.
 
If I have to say anything else, I just wanted to mention that I'm not really on a side. On one side, Dad failing to actually report the cheating was bad but you guys made a separate server to discuss banning Dad without involving the moderators who actually manage the forums in the first place. The mods need to be handling the bans, not the community. It wasn't even the community, just the people who were actually invited to the server.

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The mods need to take back the boat!!
 
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They don't know that they even need to moderate when they aren't alerted in the first place.
 
I can't speak to who was and wasn't invited as I didn't send out the invites and idek who wasn't invited tbh
 
At this point it's getting petty. If this was such an issue you should have reported it to mods but you decided not to take that route, because apparently you think they'll do nothing due to me giving them mod powers in a discord server, so instead of going through official channels you and a few others create an entire discord to discuss getting me banned while continuing not to even go through the mods to let them do their job, all because you jump to the conclusion that they won't do anything due to me modding them:

The issue is that the mods don't do anything because you gave them mod power. They aren't really doing anything besides updating the queue, and that's because Antonio told Tina he was planning to make a new one while we were working on our own iirc. The game hosts didn't want to report it so I agreed to join this.

The reason I gave Tina and Justin moderation powers for that server was because I had to demote you when you straight up started deleting Toads' input due to your past grudges with him resurfacing and once I talked to Tina like an adult after realizing the error of how we were going about things the mods showed interest in helping update rules and regularly update things. Thus I extended their moderation to the issue by giving them moderation there because they were making an effort to officialize the process, not to 'pocket them' for things like this.

I argued with Toads, I raged at Toads, but I didn't delete a thing of Toads except that one poll that was getting dved you ****ing liar. The mods aren't updating a thing anymore. Antonio's ban was never formalized, I've been told that 3 weeks after the tags poll, there's been no action and there isn't going to be because apparently a 2/3rds majority isn't large enough to be a consensus. In short, they still don't care. And frankly, multiple people have told me they don't like speaking their mind while the mods are in the server anyhow.

I used the words gamethrowing and a harsher tone like 'keep your mouth shut' as a part of the game and when you left it I told you to try and not take our exchange personally because it was just part of the act of seeming towny when I was scum. Was it wrong of me to hide cheating and chastise someone else for not doing the same in order to gain towncred? Sure, I'll take ownership of it as being against the spirit of the rules given it falls under the aggressive behavior category in the OP. Will I not participate in two games because your lynch mob 'Dad Ban Discussion Server' decided on that as a desired ban-length? Sure, I'll sit out. And if the mods want to officialize it as an infraction I'm fine with that. I wrongly assumed you wouldn't take what I said personally once you knew it was only coming from a place of being a scum tactic. Turns out I was mistaken.

You used an instance of cheating to your own advantage. I don't care what you said afterwords, and frankly, I don't think that an aggressive behavior charge is warrented like you claim it's about because I'm all "petty and such". Stop that **** right here. The true crime here is that you took an instance of cheating and tried to use it like a poker chip for your advantage. I never took a thing personally, what I take issue with is that this wasn't made public until I had to go out, and I had to wait a full day for Punchy and Vanessa to give me the goahead (before Vanessa says something I asked him yesterday and he didn't get back to me until after you did). This is nothing but an attempt to whitewash cheating as a behavioral issue and I hope the forum is having none of it

As for you sitting out, honestly I'm more than fine with that but the reason that I made this public was that it wasn't made public to begin with

What I'm not okay with was the toxic way in which you have gone about this and gathered everyone in the community who you can get to decently agree with you and approach the situation with a lynch mob rather than go through the proper channels like an adult. It's a pattern with you: you build community ire for a person rather than attempt to talk things out civilly. You did it with Tina and Antonio after the kingmaker game and you are repeating that behavior here.
Nah, it seems like you have an issue with being called out on your ****

The server was not dolbys idea. It was mine because I thought it was a better alternative than publicly blasting someone. I planned on talking to you once we reached a ban decision. I am sorry for my poor judgement but I was just trying to keep peace. Clearly I didn't do a very good job. Feel free to ##VOTE me out of the cellar or something
It doesn't matter that you created the server. Heck, I created the server with the queue issue. The problem is when people use it to build antagonism towards another user and further past issues.

As a ftr this was entirely Punchy's and Vanessa's idea, stop using me as some big boogyman to push that you're being persecuted by big scary Dolby, it's demeaning what they've done as hosts. The server was actually made a good hour before I was invited in and I had no input in it's creation

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They don't know that they even need to moderate when they aren't alerted in the first place.

This is unironically why I felt the need to post this anyhow

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I can't speak to who was and wasn't invited as I didn't send out the invites and idek who wasn't invited tbh

Yeah that was literally entirely Punchy

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The ban list is still not updated and tags aren't removed, though I think that there's a far greater issue with the later
 
I think that since Dad admitted his mistake and is fine with any infraction, I don't see a reason to further push this issue. I do believe that the hosts of the scummies are entitled to discuss this issue, so I'm not against the server.

I do however feel like there's underlying personal tension which is causing this argument since it just seems more like nitpicking at this point tbh

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It's important to know when to step away and move on
 
Despite the saltiness arising, Dolby brings valid points on the activity and power of the mods, and the tbh lack of action that has come from them. But then again, there really is no need for formal modding here. Who's hosting and who's banned just seems to be a general consensus at this point, so there's really no need for a mod to run the threads anymore tbh. What does need admin power is disabling the tags, which should be done since the majority vote for it
 
Despite the saltiness arising, Dolby brings valid points on the activity and power of the mods, and the tbh lack of action that has come from them. But then again, there really is no need for formal modding here. Who's hosting and who's banned just seems to be a general consensus at this point, so there's really no need for a mod to run the threads anymore tbh. What does need admin power is disabling the tags, which should be done since the majority vote for it

Yeah honestly 16/9, counting the non-player votes, should be considered consensus anyway

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As you said removing the people who have literally never played to our knowledge we get 15-6 (though I got 15-7 personally, but it's a small difference), which is literally more than 70% approval for removing tags
 
I do think that rules/bans should just be openly discussed on TBT. A mod doesn't need to formalize it since there's really no staff that's involved enough in the games to properly weigh in the discussion (unless they played/read that whole game). Everything should just be out in the open in a more civil way

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There majority of us are adults and these heated conversations are really childish and pointless. A calm discussion will be a lot more efficient in getting things done
 
Seeya later I'm burning bridges. If you want screenshots of the encounter or an explanation on some of my actions here (should've ****ing reported right away) get someone to DM me on discord

I don't know why you're so mad about this, you said a while ago you were done with mafia. I get it violated your morals or something, but you made the situation worse when you brought in the fact he was "buddies" with the mods.

If you're never playing again, I see no reason for you to be so worked up on this. This no longer effects you, unless you want to rat him out on MU or something. You added hostility to the issue and everyone can feel it. This is your personal grudge against Dad which started from your bias against Toad over a bot.

A bot out of all things is how it started.

No one is perfect, I've sperged out at stupid stuff too. Dylan even admitted the whole russian revolution we were all trying to pull was unfair. But right now I hope you see that you're tearing the uh... "community" apart. There's a sudden decline of interest in mafia now because of tension.

Again, I see no reason why you or anyone didn't bring this up in the already made mafia discord - because he's a mod/owner of the server? I just feel like after playing a years worth of games with him you should trust him better. (No, I do not consider his silly role breaking a serious trust violation as him as a person). Do you seriously think he would try to censor you, and not have a civil discussion?

I'm obviously biased because he's a close friend of mine due to how many games of mafia we played. I've certainly created meaningless drama too, especially before I left lmfao (#reformed)

tldr: idk why you're letting this affect you so, so much. you're no longer playing here and it seems now youre just trying to get revenge because he demoted you
 
tldr: idk why you're letting this affect you so, so much. you're no longer playing here and it seems now youre just trying to get revenge because he demoted you
I'm putting this out in public for a few reasons. First of all this should have been made public post-game anyway. Secondly, we have literally banned people over less (See: Antonio), and I kinda see the movement to defend Dad as a sideeffect of the reputation he has. I'm not a part of the server anymore, and frankly didn't care about mafia until Punchy invited me to his server and I looked and found that nothing had been done to make this public (which honestly I have more of an issue with than the ban debate). I also don't really have an interest in a server that I have no intent of going back to because I still don't intend to play

Just because something doesn't effect me doesn't mean I shouldn't say something or have the right to say something as dumb as it sounds coming over an internet forum over an internet game
 
I disagree on the admin things. I feel like a community decision will have to many bias votes to come to a fair decision. I believe a moderator should handle all bans but should hear the communitys opinions on said bans. Also Vanessa, radical makes an interesting point about not bring things up in the server. I still don't agree that people should make separate servers and make decisions for the entire community without inviting the entire community to have a say.

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The moderators are here for a reason but they haven't been here lately.
 
The issue is that the mods don't do anything because you gave them mod power. They aren't really doing anything besides updating the queue, and that's because Antonio told Tina he was planning to make a new one while we were working on our own iirc. The game hosts didn't want to report it so I agreed to join this.



I argued with Toads, I raged at Toads, but I didn't delete a thing of Toads except that one poll that was getting dved you ****ing liar. The mods aren't updating a thing anymore. Antonio's ban was never formalized, I've been told that 3 weeks after the tags poll, there's been no action and there isn't going to be because apparently a 2/3rds majority isn't large enough to be a consensus. In short, they still don't care. And frankly, multiple people have told me they don't like speaking their mind while the mods are in the server anyhow.



You used an instance of cheating to your own advantage. I don't care what you said afterwords, and frankly, I don't think that an aggressive behavior charge is warrented like you claim it's about because I'm all "petty and such". Stop that **** right here. The true crime here is that you took an instance of cheating and tried to use it like a poker chip for your advantage. I never took a thing personally, what I take issue with is that this wasn't made public until I had to go out, and I had to wait a full day for Punchy and Vanessa to give me the goahead (before Vanessa says something I asked him yesterday and he didn't get back to me until after you did). This is nothing but an attempt to whitewash cheating as a behavioral issue and I hope the forum is having none of it

As for you sitting out, honestly I'm more than fine with that but the reason that I made this public was that it wasn't made public to begin with


Nah, it seems like you have an issue with being called out on your ****




As a ftr this was entirely Punchy's and Vanessa's idea, stop using me as some big boogyman to push that you're being persecuted by big scary Dolby, it's demeaning what they've done as hosts. The server was actually made a good hour before I was invited in and I had no input in it's creation

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This is unironically why I felt the need to post this anyhow

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Yeah that was literally entirely Punchy

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The ban list is still not updated and tags aren't removed, though I think that there's a far greater issue with the later

The mods are keeping up with the queue and to be fair have any if us prodded them about moving forward with the rule voting and ban list? Not only that but you are keeping them out of the loop from this incident because they are guilty of favoritism? Not only is that untested to begin with but it's just you using it as a reason to try and take control of a community.

I removed your modship because I saw that you deleted someone's suggestion for a rule after having a personal fight with him and called him a *****:

(Spoiler because language)

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This was a clear display if how you act when someone doesn't agree with you. Whether or not Toads' was right in your influence on the votes, you used your moderation power to delete someone's contribution to the improvement if this community and got straight up venemous about it.

And the true crime is using cheating as a poker chip? That's exactly what I've admitted to doing. And technically if you found insult in the game throwing comment and harsh tone, that's actually the rule breach at hand under Aggressive Behavior and the true crime. I misread you as a person and thus it was a gamble with how you would react, and it definitely didn't pay off.

And I think you are expecting a lot from mods if you think that somehow they could respond to a situation like this when a lot of the stuff at hand is in DMs. If that's why you felt the need to post this then you have a skewed understanding of moderation.

And lastly if I had an issue with being called out for a rule breach I would be arguing against it. I'm moreso in this argument because it's an example of why we've fallen apart as a community and we might as well get things out there rather than bottling them up and acting either aggressively, passively aggressive, or both.
 
The mods are keeping up with the queue and to be fair have any if us prodded them about moving forward with the rule voting and ban list? Not only that but you are keeping them out of the loop from this incident because they are guilty of favoritism? Not only is that untested to begin with but it's just you using it as a reason to try and take control of a community.

Mog and Daniel have been talking to them privately and publicly from what I've seen. We've literally got a response from them, at least according to Punchy

PunchyThyCatLast Saturday at 1:20 PM
he said "no general consensus was reached"

They really don't seem to care what the majority thinks. People have made posts (Dan, multiple times over the past week), and people have PMed and DMed (Mog said that she had at least), they've been prodded, they aren't acting. I don't know who alls been doing what, but I can guarentee that theirs been more

We've kept them out of the loop from your incident specifically, I'll damn admit to that. I had little part in making that decision and the reason that I made this public was because I thought that it was a mistake: It should have been made public post-last game anyway, and people deserved to know about it if Punchy and Vanessa wanted to take action on it

And the true crime is using cheating as a poker chip? That's exactly what I've admitted to doing. And technically if you found insult in the game throwing comment and harsh tone, that's actually the rule breach at hand under Aggressive Behavior and the true crime. I misread you as a person and thus it was a gamble with how you would react, and it definitely didn't pay off.

You are literally trying to whitewash the aggressive behavior as the more important factor here when it really isn't. That's what I tried to say at least and I'll stand by that covering up cheating is more important

And I think you are expecting a lot from mods if you think that somehow they could respond to a situation like this when a lot of the stuff at hand is in DMs. If that's why you felt the need to post this then you have a skewed understanding of moderation.
The poll
Has literally
Been up
For three weeks
With 2/3rds wanting a removal of tags
I don't see why they can't have at least done that by now

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Also

I have no intention of playing anymore

Do you seriously think I want to "take over" anyway

This is a laughable smear

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If you feel you have to explain your aggressiveness rather than your hiding of rule breaking idk what to tell you but you don't have a grasp of what's the more serious issue
 
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