The gun, or the criminal?

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Lucanosa said:
Anyways, before we get too off track, if you make a law that makes guns illegal or hard to obtain (which Obama is trying), people will still have guns. Mainly criminals. It's called the black market. You can't stop them entirely, or much at all even, unless you literally go house to house and melt them all.
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This and the rest of this paragraph is basically how I think about gun control in the US. It's impossible to impose a ban on guns now, and the only people it would affect are people that likely would only have used it in defense. The restrictions that Obama proposed now (sellers need a license, background checks on buyers mandatory, other minor additions) won't help any either. If you're thinking of killing with a gun, you'll find a way to get your hands on one.

Guns are banned in France, but the 13 November attacks still happened. There's a huge black market in Europe that deals in weapons produced before gun restriction laws were implemented in certain countries. I don't want to see gun ownership among citizens becoming a thing in Europe, and I doubt it ever will, since most people here think of them as disgusting. But if stricter gun laws were implemented in the US, it would be like castrating the citizens that just want to protect themselves.
 
finding a workaround is not a valid argument because in the end it would still discourage a lot of petty or inexperienced criminals so

like the least u could do is have limits on purchasing ammunition and making it a lot more difficult to have a gun permit lol
 
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The way I look at it is that it's a hell of a lot easier for criminals to kill people with guns. I don't know how many more deaths of young children and families we'll need in order for the U.S to finally take some real action and ban guns or have a lot stricter gun control. Sometimes I'm even afraid to go outside my house and to public places because where I live, I hear about people getting shot everyday in the news and I'm sure it's the same in many other states too. It's really sad.
 
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So people are like "you don't need guns to commit a crime" so then what's the harm in banning them anyways?

But anyways aside from the gun thing I think more measures than that need to be taken to decrease crime rate, like easier access to mental health help, better lives for the unemployed, a higher minimum wage etc. 'cause guns are still only part of the problem
 
DarkDesertFox said:
Guns should not be banned. Like you've said already, people don't actually need a gun to commit a crime. You've got knives, swords, bombs, etc. You even see some reports on the news of people using their car as a weapon to run people down. Take guns away from the civilians and now you've given criminals the upper hand using illegal methods to obtain guns. Criminals will always find a workaround.
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I don't know where you live, but I'm pretty sure bombs (and most swords) are illegal.

Get a few people involved with knives and it could turn pretty messy.
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"could" isn't really fact-checking, though.

You're right, though; there have been several incidents where someone wielding a knife has gone around and slaughtered a lot of people. But these are reported globally and are spread over several decades. The Wikipedia article for 'mass stabbings' has 28 entries. In a separate article, there were over 50 school shootings in the United States between 2014-15.
 
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just gonna leave this here
gun violence.jpg

2,000 probably doesn't seem like a massive figure in the grand scope of things in a huge place like america but that's 2,000 lives wiped out in accidental shootings that would never have happened if there hadn't been a gun in the vicinity. more shocking still, over 40 of those incidents were at the hands of toddlers. as in toddlers. as in 2/3/4 year olds. toddlers literally shooting guns. why on earth does it seem like a good idea to live in a society where guns are accessible to TODDLERS
i've grown up in ireland, a country where literally NOBODY has a gun (with the exception of hunting rifles and even then licenses are incredibly difficult to obtain) like our police force isn't armed guns are not seen here at all and i remember when i went to america for the first time i saw a policeman with a gun and i nearly **** myself no lie
 
I wonder if anyone here study the bureau of Justice Statistics.
People die everyday, in varies of ways too. Whether it's through shooting, car bombs, stabbing, physical contact, poison, disease, starvation, heck even old age, etc.
People kill with intention, whether it's good or bad there's a reason. I think I recall reading this article of the 10 top things that are dangerous[I'm probably mixing up the title since I read a few other things that kinda had a similar title]. The list was cringe-worthy, ranging from killer animals, poisonous insects, to even plants but the number one contender is humans.

Regards to this topic, I still personally believe 'the criminal' or people, The simple truth is that guns DO NOT kill people[I mean well duh]; people kill people and have been doing so long before firearms were invented. If you live in a neighborhood that constantly has shootings, probably move. Or get some protection. Or stop looking at the news, it's depressing.
 
I mean it's really both the criminal and the weapon that make the crime but yeah guns are stupid and I don't get why people are so crazy about having them
 
epona said:
i've grown up in ireland, a country where literally NOBODY has a gun (with the exception of hunting rifles and even then licenses are incredibly difficult to obtain) like our police force isn't armed guns are not seen here at all and i remember when i went to america for the first time i saw a policeman with a gun and i nearly **** myself no lie
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cool story bro

For real though, did you forget that just a few years ago, Dublin was considered the "gun murder capital" of Europe, that Irish authorities have seized over 1000 illegal weapons in Ireland since 2005, and that gun crime is actually on the rise in Ireland? You can say "nobody has guns in Ireland", but 5 seconds on Google shows how awfully wrong that statement is.

I'll admit the numbers are tiny compared to the US. However, the gun legislation of Ireland is lax compared to other European countries.

Sources: 1 2 3

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piichinu said:
guns do kill people the bullet enters and pierces and makes u bleed out and die
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um that means the bullet kills people
so ban bullets
 
TarzanGirl said:
There are so many guns in the US already so banning guns is not practical.
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And the culture is very gun-obsessed too.

Knopekin said:
I do understand the cultural significance of guns in the US, and I definitely agree that steps need to be taken to help prevent things like mass shootings (I've been reading about US shootings recently and there is a huge gender difference, something like 2% of shootings are committed by women, so we should start with toxic masculinity). But the fact remains that if you take away people's guns, people will commit crimes, but crucially they won't commit crimes with guns, which will decrease the death count exponentially.
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How about we ignore nonsense like toxic masculinity in this case and fund mental health more?
 
Without the person, the gun can't do harm to anyone so therefore, it's obvious that it's the criminal's fault.
 
crystalmilktea said:
Gun control also prevents accidental shootings- how many children in the US have mistakenly shot someone because they were able to access a gun?
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I agree that there should be more gun control. Banning guns completely wouldn't solve the problem.

It would be interesting to compare the amount of deaths and shootings in states with more gun control to states with barely any gun control.
 
You can't murder a school full of people, or an entire mall, or the audience of a midnight screening, with a knife (at least not easily) I hate guns in general, and the thought of hunting makes me uncomfortable. I may be paranoid and sensitive, but guns just aren't safe in the hands of most people.
 
okay, well, banning meth hasnt solved the problem
banning human trafficking hasnt solved the problem
banning anything never completely solves the problem

same goes for guns so let's just make everything legal because it doesn't "completely solve the problem"
 
What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.
 
TheLostEmpire said:
What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.
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Yeah well those kind of idiots are the people allowed to own guns.... so
 
TheLostEmpire said:
What kind of idiot would let their toddler or child anywhere near a gun. Those are supposed to be locked up or in a place they can't get to. Sounds more like a problem with the parents than the gun.
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People in the US can carry hand guns around, toddlers easily find them in adult's purses or bags. I'm sure most adults don't lock up guns very securely, or else they wouldn't be able to access them quickly when they "need" them. The problem would be with the parents having the American pro-gun mentality that guns keep them safe, therefore they should be able to have access to them. I'm sure children are killed more by hand guns than big hunting guns.
 
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