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Feminism Discussion Thread

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You have to understand that this is simply how the world works. The population consists of around 90% followers and 10% leaders, which in turn means that people will simply see something, and follow it, just because of their nature. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that this is the case, and that fighting it the way you suggest is simply unreasonable and won't happen for a long, long time, until it becomes the norm, and the norm is controlled by that 90%.

Let's say for instance that my friend is on Facebook and sees a post about Feminists protesting an unfair high school dress code issue, and is looking through the comments, and one of the top comments is something along the lines of how men are terrible etc.

That will be the thing that sticks in their brain the most because it's something they doesn't understand, and when they think of Feminism that will be the first thing that comes to mind.

I would argue that this does not make them an anti Feminist, even though they now associate something negative when they hear about Feminism. All they know at that point is that the Feminist movement could be potentially harmful, and nothing else. They aren't anti Feminism, but they are unsure of it's purpose.

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yeah somehow i doubt that only 10% of the population have brains and the rest are sheeps

I'm not saying that 90% are sheep, I'm simply saying that they're more apt to be the ones that go along with the crowd. You could argue against that but you see it everywhere in society.
 
Let's say for instance that my friend is on Facebook and sees a post about Feminists protesting an unfair high school dress code issue, and is looking through the comments, and one of the top comments is something along the lines of how men are terrible etc.

That will be the thing that sticks in their brain the most because it's something they doesn't understand, and when they think of Feminism that will be the first thing that comes to mind.

I would argue that this does not make them an anti Feminist, even though they now associate something negative when they hear about Feminism. All they know at that point is that the Feminist movement could be potentially harmful, and nothing else. They aren't anti Feminism, but they are unsure of it's purpose.

Definitely a good summary of the general thought process.
But I think we can all agree to be a more productive and progessive society, it's important whenever you see something that offends you the first step you take is self reflection.

Ask yourself, why does this offend me? Why is this person saying such things? Surely, it isn't as superficial as they hate a specific type of person for no reason.

Then ask questions in a respectful manner. Try to understand that someone is saying something because they're hurt. Figure out why.

If in the end there is literally no valid reason, then proceed to write that person off.

But more than half the time, I can guarantee you, you'll learn something new.
 
@Ashtot that's kind of an elitist and one-sided mentality though. it seems that whenever someone expresses an opinion that's outside the norm they're basically considered free to attack, so people just feel it's safer to stick with the crowd. like it's not inherent, it's just a result of society

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Smh
Everyone in this thread acting like they're feminist... Feminism is about treating EVERYONE as equal. That includes men, and members of the trans community.

So seriously, stop or leave this thread. Because you are NOT feminist.

people who identify as trans should be treated equally, ie they should not be discriminated against, use spaces for members of their biological sex until they transition, and be discouraged from sawing off their body parts (as should everyone else)
 
Let's say for instance that my friend is on Facebook and sees a post about Feminists protesting an unfair high school dress code issue, and is looking through the comments, and one of the top comments is something along the lines of how men are terrible etc.

That will be the thing that sticks in their brain the most because it's something they doesn't understand, and when they think of Feminism that will be the first thing that comes to mind.

I would argue that this does not make them an anti Feminist, even though they now associate something negative when they hear about Feminism. All they know at that point is that the Feminist movement could be potentially harmful, and nothing else. They aren't anti Feminism, but they are unsure of it's purpose.

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I'm not saying that 90% are sheep, I'm simply saying that they're more apt to be the ones that go along with the crowd. You could argue against that but you see it everywhere in society.

True, they would only be anti feminist in my book if they start going around saying all feminists are man haters based off that one instance. [and also stupid.]

I just want to go against the whole process of people judging a entire group based off of the extremists.

@Ashtot that's kind of an elitist and one-sided mentality though. it seems that whenever someone expresses an opinion that's outside the norm they're basically considered free to attack, so people just feel it's safer to stick with the crowd. like it's not inherent, it's just a result of society

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people who identify as trans should be treated equally, ie they should not be discriminated against, use spaces for members of their biological sex until they transition, and be discouraged from sawing off their body parts (as should everyone else)

Which brings me back to why, if someone wants to change their sex, does it matter to you?
 
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@Ashtot that's kind of an elitist and one-sided mentality though. it seems that whenever someone expresses an opinion that's outside the norm they're basically considered free to attack, so people just feel it's safer to stick with the crowd. like it's not inherent, it's just a result of society

This is what happens though. A prime example is in schools. There's that guy who dresses nice and gets ridiculed by someone, and then a group of others join in. It's just what happens, even though it's completely wrong.

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I just want to go against the whole process of people judging a entire group based off of the extremists.

I agree with you, I simply was trying to explain that as much as you and I would like that, there will always be those people, and expecting them to magically become more educated is unreasonable, as bad as that sounds. I'm not trying to put people down at all, I'm just saying that it happens.
 
Why being Transracial is not okay

Just wanted to post this since I saw some posts defending being transracial using the old argument that if trans people can exist so can trans racial.

Ok first of all, being trans racial means you identify as a race that is not your own.
Let me clarify and say, you are ALLOWED to have an interest in a different culture that is not your own. However, you will NEVER be that race you choose to identify with. Why? Because in order to be apart of that race, you must not only take on the aspects which you enjoy and find interesting, but you must also take on the negative stereotypes that members of that race face in their daily life. You will never be able to ever face the degree of discrimination a certain group faces, simply because you were never apart of that group to begin with. You can not pick and choose aspects of a culture that you like, and still benefit from your own culture. Even if you were born in a certain place where that race is prominent.

For example, there are many whites born and living within India. Their nationality might be Indian, they may know nothing else but Indian culture, but they will always benefit from their white heritage, EVEN WHILE LIVING IN INDIA. They may go through the same struggles as many Indians do, but it will never be to same extent as someone who is an actual Indian.

Now how is this different than being transgender????????
Gender has a lot to do with our own personal experience, and how we perceive ourselves within the physical world. Gender is a social construct, which society has created in an attempt to box and categorize individuals. When in reality, gender is a very fluid thing, sort of like how sexuality is incredibly fluid.

Identifying as a certain gender is a LOT deeper than wanting to be a certain race because "whee I like henna and bindis"
 
Which brings me back to why, if someone wants to change their sex, does it matter to you?

it reinforces gender roles by saying that if a person acts x they must be a man and if they act y they must be a woman. i know there's people who have no choice but to transition because they'll kill themselves otherwise, but transitioning should really not be so heavily encouraged and treated as progressive.
 
Definitely a good summary of the general thought process.
But I think we can all agree to be a more productive and progessive society, it's important whenever you see something that offends you the first step you take is self reflection.

Ask yourself, why does this offend me? Why is this person saying such things? Surely, it isn't as superficial as they hate a specific type of person for no reason.

Then ask questions in a respectful manner. Try to understand that someone is saying something because they're hurt. Figure out why.

If in the end there is literally no valid reason, then proceed to write that person off.

But more than half the time, I can guarantee you, you'll learn something new.

When the stigma of a movement is generally negative and "better than you because I'm a feminist" you have to question it's motives and what it really is trying to do. I support the idea of feminism - yet I do not support local feminists because of their poor attitude towards everyone around them and unprofessional methods of trying to bring about change.
 
@Ashtot that's kind of an elitist and one-sided mentality though. it seems that whenever someone expresses an opinion that's outside the norm they're basically considered free to attack, so people just feel it's safer to stick with the crowd. like it's not inherent, it's just a result of society

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people who identify as trans should be treated equally, ie they should not be discriminated against, use spaces for members of their biological sex until they transition, and be discouraged from sawing off their body parts (as should everyone else)

I'm sorry I'm not following your thought process. You're saying members of the trans community should be treated equally and not discriminated against....then you're voicing YOUR opinion on what they shouldn't to their OWN bodies.

Are you told what to do with your own body? How in the heck is what you're saying treating them equal

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When the stigma of a movement is generally negative and "better than you because I'm a feminist" you have to question it's motives and what it really is trying to do. I support the idea of feminism - yet I do not support local feminists because of their poor attitude towards everyone around them and unprofessional methods of trying to bring about change.

Is the stigma generally negative though? Before I indulged myself into the world of feminism, what I found negative was simply society's view on women. "Oh what pms-y *****es"
I agreed, without really understanding why. Until I started questioning it, and learned about feminism I had no idea what an accepting movement feminism really is.

Super bad analogy but it's sort of like how when you're younger a lot of people perceive republicans and "bad". When really, the world isn't that black and white.
 
it reinforces gender roles by saying that if a person acts x they must be a man and if they act y they must be a woman. i know there's people who have no choice but to transition because they'll kill themselves otherwise, but transitioning should really not be so heavily encouraged and treated as progressive.

Except it has nothing to do with gender roles! People don't go 'oh, I like sports instead of dolls, better become a boy!', they suffer from gender dysmorphia and feel like they were born in the wrong body. If changing their gender keeps them from depression, then why the hell shouldn't it be encouraged?
 
Just wanted to post this since I saw some posts defending being transracial using the old argument that if trans people can exist so can trans racial.

Ok first of all, being trans racial means you identify as a race that is not your own.
Let me clarify and say, you are ALLOWED to have an interest in a different culture that is not your own. However, you will NEVER be that race you choose to identify with. Why? Because in order to be apart of that race, you must not only take on the aspects which you enjoy and find interesting, but you must also take on the negative stereotypes that members of that race face in their daily life. You will never be able to ever face the degree of discrimination a certain group faces, simply because you were never apart of that group to begin with. You can not pick and choose aspects of a culture that you like, and still benefit from your own culture. Even if you were born in a certain place where that race is prominent.

For example, there are many whites born and living within India. Their nationality might be Indian, they may know nothing else but Indian culture, but they will always benefit from their white heritage, EVEN WHILE LIVING IN INDIA. They may go through the same struggles as many Indians do, but it will never be to same extent as someone who is an actual Indian.

Now how is this different than being transgender????????
Gender has a lot to do with our own personal experience, and how we perceive ourselves within the physical world. Gender is a social construct, which society has created in an attempt to box and categorize individuals. When in reality, gender is a very fluid thing, sort of like how sexuality is incredibly fluid.

Identifying as a certain gender is a LOT deeper than wanting to be a certain race because "whee I like henna and bindis"

transracial = i like this culture and the stereotypes associated with it. i am a now member of this culture.
transgender = i like this gender and the stereotypes associated with it. i am a now member of this gender.

there is no "state of being female". decisions that someone is transgender are based SOLELY on stereotypes, because all biological sex differences (if any) are extremely minor and. people who identify as trans associate themselves with the STEREOTYPES aimed at the other sex (eg. people who identify as transwomen because they like shopping, or people who identify as transmen because they like sports). if these stereotypes ("genders") did not exist, people would now have to modify their bodies to act like themselves.

gender is a social construct that should be done away with, rather than reinforced.

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Except it has nothing to do with gender roles! People don't go 'oh, I like sports instead of dolls, better become a boy!', they suffer from gender dysmorphia and feel like they were born in the wrong body. If changing their gender keeps them from depression, then why the hell shouldn't it be encouraged?

except it's not

there's little girls who think they must be boys because they don't want to play with dolls. they don't have a godlike understanding of the universe and the origins of gender -- they just believe it because they are being told that a boy is someone who likes sports, and a girl is someone who likes dolls. even teenagers and adults have trouble breaking away from these roles because they are so deeply ingrained in our culture and society.

yes, transitioning keeps them from depression, but they would not have depression in the first place if gender roles did not exist.

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they suffer from dysphoria due to gender roles, even if they don't realize it
 
transracial = i like this culture and the stereotypes associated with it. i am a now member of this culture.
transgender = i like this gender and the stereotypes associated with it. i am a now member of this gender.

there is no "state of being female". decisions that someone is transgender are based SOLELY on stereotypes, because all biological sex differences (if any) are extremely minor and. people who identify as trans associate themselves with the STEREOTYPES aimed at the other sex (eg. people who identify as transwomen because they like shopping, or people who identify as transmen because they like sports). if these stereotypes ("genders") did not exist, people would now have to modify their bodies to act like themselves.

gender is a social construct that should be done away with, rather than reinforced.

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except it's not

there's little girls who think they must be boys because they don't want to play with dolls. they don't have a godlike understanding of the universe and the origins of gender -- they just believe it because they are being told that a boy is someone who likes sports, and a girl is someone who likes dolls. even teenagers and adults have trouble breaking away from these roles because they are so deeply ingrained in our culture and society.

yes, transitioning keeps them from depression, but they would not have depression in the first place if gender roles did not exist.

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they suffer from dysphoria due to gender roles, even if they don't realize it
yikes, you realize culture =/= race right?

Also I understand what you're trying to say but no. Even with gender roles abolished, people would STILL identify as trans due to SEX, not GENDER.
 
Is the stigma generally negative though? Before I indulged myself into the world of feminism, what I found negative was simply society's view on women. "Oh what pms-y *****es"
I agreed, without really understanding why. Until I started questioning it, and learned about feminism I had no idea what an accepting movement feminism really is.

Super bad analogy but it's sort of like how when you're younger a lot of people perceive republicans and "bad". When really, the world isn't that black and white.

I don't have enough experience to speak for other age groups, but teens to young adults there is a pretty poor stigma where I am from. Although, if the people around you were saying things like what you said above it was probably just best to re-evaluate the friends you have. Most of my friends would not consider themselves feminists but treat everyone equal (to the extent any human can) and are way less prejudiced or entitled than other people I know who supposedly fight for equality.

I'm not saying it's always the case. But there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to this topic. I think that all opinions should be respected regardless of whether or not they are feminist and regardless of race, gender, etc. You are free to disagree with them, but no one person or one group has the power to invalidate someone's thoughts and feelings.
 
I don't have enough experience to speak for other age groups, but teens to young adults there is a pretty poor stigma where I am from. Although, if the people around you were saying things like what you said above it was probably just best to re-evaluate the friends you have. Most of my friends would not consider themselves feminists but treat everyone equal (to the extent any human can) and are way less prejudiced or entitled than other people I know who supposedly fight for equality.

I'm not saying it's always the case. But there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to this topic. I think that all opinions should be respected regardless of whether or not they are feminist and regardless of race, gender, etc. You are free to disagree with them, but no one person or one group has the power to invalidate someone's thoughts and feelings.

Definitely! I think people nitpick too much about what word to use (feminism vs egalitarianism), at the end of the day it should just be about treating everyone equally regardless of what they identify with.
 
yikes, you realize culture =/= race right?

Also I understand what you're trying to say but no. Even with gender roles abolished, people would STILL identify as trans due to SEX, not GENDER.

yeah i just got like 2 hours of sleep last night so it's messing up my synonyms

with gender roles, (a few) people would identify as trans, but they would be treated the same way as others who want to remove their body parts. "i want to cut off my arm" and "i want to cut off my genitals" would be thought of the same way by the general public, that is, as unnecessary self mutilation.

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*without
 
You're mainly just throwing out a lot of generalizations.

Not all men are dominant over women.

Not all men are twisted to think that women are objects or that they belong in the kitchen.

Not all women believe that their supposed to be submissive and please men.

I understand that these are your experiences but you can't simply pin it on everyone. It insults both women and men.

If youre talking about what I said, yes it's a male dominated society where women aren't in charge, in a general way (ex: not specific abilities)
 
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yeah i just got like 2 hours of sleep last night so it's messing up my synonyms

with gender roles, (a few) people would identify as trans, but they would be treated the same way as others who want to remove their body parts. "i want to cut off my arm" and "i want to cut off my genitals" would be thought of the same way by the general public, that is, as unnecessary self mutilation.

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*without

Look pillow bunny, I like a lot of things that follow under the stereotype of being "boy things". However, I identify as the gender given to me at birth which is female.
Saying what you're saying, is dismissing the experiences a lot of people within the trans community have faced. Just because someone who is a transwoman, likes shopping, makeup and stereotypical "girl things" does not mean their hobbies are the reason they've transitioned or the reason they identify as a woman.
 
If youre talking about what I said, yes it's a male dominated society where women aren't in charge, in a general way (ex: not specific abilities)

not long ago, both genders believed that men were superior
now both are trying to change for the better
 
except it's not

there's little girls who think they must be boys because they don't want to play with dolls. they don't have a godlike understanding of the universe and the origins of gender -- they just believe it because they are being told that a boy is someone who likes sports, and a girl is someone who likes dolls. even teenagers and adults have trouble breaking away from these roles because they are so deeply ingrained in our culture and society.

yes, transitioning keeps them from depression, but they would not have depression in the first place if gender roles did not exist.

That's not gender dysmorphia, then. I'm talking about people who experience real gender dysmorphia because they feel they should be one gender but are the opposite. It has nothing to do with 'boys do this, girls do this', it's about what their body is like, and not having gender roles wouldn't change the fact that their biological sex doesn't match up with the sex they feel they should be, not because they like basket ball instead of dolls, but because they feel wrong in their current body.

they suffer from dysphoria due to gender roles, even if they don't realize it

tumblr_m28nlmTvF91qeusqq.gif


Please, tell me more about how you know more about gender dysmorphia than someone who's actually experienced it.
 
Gentle reminder to everyone voicing their opinion about a group they are not apart of.
Your opinion, on your privileged pedestal does not outweigh the voices from members of the specific group who are speaking from experience.
 
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