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ACCF18
11-12-2010, 04:44 PM
Need some more games for the Wii. So, name some games that you recommend. I already got: Brawl, Twilight Princess, Goldeneye, Pokemon Battle Revolution, ACCF, Link's Crossbow Training, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

And, don't forget to name a reason for me to get it. Not just something like, ''*Wii game*''
Has to be a good reason.

Marcus
11-12-2010, 04:58 PM
L4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.

AndyB
11-12-2010, 05:36 PM
L4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.Whoa whoa whoa... what now?
When did that happen?

Marcus
11-12-2010, 06:11 PM
L4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.Whoa whoa whoa... what now?
When did that happen?I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean?

AndyB
11-12-2010, 06:19 PM
L4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.Whoa whoa whoa... what now?
When did that happen?I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean?L4D, on Wii. When did that happen?

Mino
11-12-2010, 09:34 PM
L4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.Whoa whoa whoa... what now?
When did that happen?I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean?L4D, on Wii. When did that happen?Never... he's either full of *censored.2.0* or that acronym is meant to stand for a different game.

The Sign Painter
11-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Monster Hunter Tri- Grinding is about 99% of the game, but it is still fun. You kill big monsters and carve them to get materials to make new weapons and armor so you can kill bigger things.

Gnome
11-12-2010, 10:06 PM
Monster Hunter Tri- Grinding is about 99% of the game, but it is still fun. You kill big monsters and carve them to get materials to make new weapons and armor so you can kill bigger things.So the base of the game is to grind for no reason? At least MMO's have quests and events. MH just seems like grind-fest central.

OmegaMan
11-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Monster Hunter Tri- Grinding is about 99% of the game, but it is still fun. You kill big monsters and carve them to get materials to make new weapons and armor so you can kill bigger things.So the base of the game is to grind for no reason? At least MMO's have quests and events. MH just seems like grind-fest central."You kill big monsters and carve them to get materials to make new weapons and armor so you can kill bigger things."

Did you miss that entire sentence? -.-"

ACCF18
11-12-2010, 10:53 PM
Hmm... sounds alright. I'm not gonna get Galaxy, I'm not so hyped on the new Mario games. A lot of people said it sucked too.

-Aaron
11-12-2010, 10:56 PM
Well, are you looking for a specific age rating? Like, does your mom allow you to play M rated games and such?

ACCF18
11-12-2010, 11:04 PM
Well, are you looking for a specific age rating? Like, does your mom allow you to play M rated games and such?...

Pretty obvious. I played rated M games since I was 6.

-Aaron
11-12-2010, 11:29 PM
Well, are you looking for a specific age rating? Like, does your mom allow you to play M rated games and such?...

Pretty obvious. I played rated M games since I was 6.Not obvious.

Also, enjoy.
http://vsrecommendedgames.wikia.com/wiki/Wii

That's the site that I use if I need help buying a game. It hasn't failed me so far.

Chimera
11-13-2010, 11:49 AM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.

Ehingen Guy
11-13-2010, 12:04 PM
I second Mario Kart. It's loads of fun, especially with other people.

Lobo
11-13-2010, 12:25 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked?This
How did it suck? It was what made the wii become a better console with the graphics at its highest potential! :L

Liv
11-13-2010, 12:28 PM
Hmm.

My picks:
Okay so Super Mario Galaxy, it's VERY colorful and good for all ages.
Endless Ocean very relaxing but it's also kinda just a winding down game there is no real objective.
And Super SmashBros Brawl(hehe surprise surprise) but it's very fun and you can play multiple people.

My brothers:
(I don't really know much about these but these are his favorites)
No More Heroes http://wii.ign.com/objects/827/827358.html
Resident Evil Archives http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14283734.html

Dimitri Petrenko
11-13-2010, 01:49 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.Mario galaxy sucked

Liv
11-13-2010, 02:14 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.Mario galaxy suckedcrazy fool

Mr. L
11-13-2010, 02:36 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.Mario galaxy suckedeye no rite jus liek TF2 and and CoD olololololo

[Nook]
11-13-2010, 02:44 PM
SMG2, MKW, Kirby's Epic Yarn, PokePark Wii, SSBB, SMG (It does not suck. Did you get that from a non-gamer/casual gamer or a hardcore gamer?).

Dimitri Petrenko
11-13-2010, 02:59 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.Mario galaxy suckedeye no rite jus liek TF2 and and CoD olololololoHeh at least ive played and own the game im taking the piss out of

AndyB
11-13-2010, 03:05 PM
What kind of crazy fools said Mario Galaxy sucked? Well I recommend Mario Kart, it's a great racing game.Mario galaxy suckedeye no rite jus liek TF2 and and CoD olololololoHeh at least ive played and own the game im taking the piss out ofHe's not taking the piss out of those games.
Just think about it.

Marcus
11-13-2010, 04:12 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepL4D-simply a great Wii game, one of the best on the console.
CoD: Revolution and 5-sick as games, even if it is on the Wii.
Super Mario Galaxy-great gameplay, a good Mario game on the whole.
Grand Slam Tennis-it's a more realistic and on the whole better tennis game than the one that comes with Wii Sports.I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean?L4D, on Wii. When did that happen?Never... he's either full of *censored.2.0* or that acronym is meant to stand for a different game.Haha my bad I meant House of the Dead, I get those two mixed up :P

ACCF18
11-13-2010, 05:49 PM
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...

[Nook]
11-13-2010, 05:55 PM
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.
But be careful, there's stupid little kids online who have no skill and only rely on items to win the race.

ACCF18
11-13-2010, 05:58 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.True. I wish you can just pick your items for some matches. There should be an online race where there is only bananas, green shells, red shells, fake item boxes, and mushrooms. If the player is stuck at 12th place and needs a bullet bill or golden mushroom, then oh well, I guess they suck and can't catch up.

[Nook]
11-13-2010, 06:17 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.True. I wish you can just pick your items for some matches. There should be an online race where there is only bananas, green shells, red shells, fake item boxes, and mushrooms. If the player is stuck at 12th place and needs a bullet bill or golden mushroom, then oh well, I guess they suck and can't catch up. Exactly.

Nintendo thinks that powerful items will make the bad player better, but that just gets their ego up, which does nothing at all. Only practice with no help from powerful items will make them better.

By the way, the online mode can have rooms.
The rooms will be : Expert, Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner.
For expert, there will be no items.
For advanced, there will be mushrooms, green shells, and bananas.
For Intermediate, there will be mushrooms, green shells, red shells, fake items boxes, and maybe a small chance of getting a star.
For beginner, there will be all items, including the powerful ones, so the little kids can enjoy their little noobfest without disturbing the better players.

ACCF18
11-13-2010, 06:22 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 05:17:24 PM]

,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.True. I wish you can just pick your items for some matches. There should be an online race where there is only bananas, green shells, red shells, fake item boxes, and mushrooms. If the player is stuck at 12th place and needs a bullet bill or golden mushroom, then oh well, I guess they suck and can't catch up. Exactly.

Nintendo thinks that powerful items will make the bad player better, but that just gets their ego up, which does nothing at all. Only practice with no help from powerful items will make them better.

By the way, the online mode can have rooms.
The rooms will be : Expert, Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner.
For expert, there will be no items.
For advanced, there will be mushrooms, green shells, and bananas.
For Intermediate, there will be mushrooms, green shells, red shells, fake items boxes, and maybe a small chance of getting a star.
For beginner, there will be all items, including the powerful ones, so the little kids can enjoy their little noobfest without disturbing the better players.That would be such a perfect idea. Hope Nintendo does something like that next time.

I'm really good at MKW, but if this were to be real, I'd pick advanced. I would want atleast SOME items.

Bacon Boy
11-13-2010, 06:24 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 05:17:24 PM]

,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepTrue. I wish you can just pick your items for some matches. There should be an online race where there is only bananas, green shells, red shells, fake item boxes, and mushrooms. If the player is stuck at 12th place and needs a bullet bill or golden mushroom, then oh well, I guess they suck and can't catch up. Exactly.

Nintendo thinks that powerful items will make the bad player better, but that just gets their ego up, which does nothing at all. Only practice with no help from powerful items will make them better.

By the way, the online mode can have rooms.
The rooms will be : Expert, Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner.
For expert, there will be no items.
For advanced, there will be mushrooms, green shells, and bananas.
For Intermediate, there will be mushrooms, green shells, red shells, fake items boxes, and maybe a small chance of getting a star.
For beginner, there will be all items, including the powerful ones, so the little kids can enjoy their little noobfest without disturbing the better players.That would be such a perfect idea. Hope Nintendo does something like that next time.

I'm really good at MKW, but if this were to be real, I'd pick advanced. I would want atleast SOME items.Or just no Blue Turtle shells. Even if some beginner gets a bullet bill, chances are they'll fall behind in a matter of seconds anyways.

[Nook]
11-13-2010, 06:24 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 05:17:24 PM]

,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepTrue. I wish you can just pick your items for some matches. There should be an online race where there is only bananas, green shells, red shells, fake item boxes, and mushrooms. If the player is stuck at 12th place and needs a bullet bill or golden mushroom, then oh well, I guess they suck and can't catch up. Exactly.

Nintendo thinks that powerful items will make the bad player better, but that just gets their ego up, which does nothing at all. Only practice with no help from powerful items will make them better.

By the way, the online mode can have rooms.
The rooms will be : Expert, Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner.
For expert, there will be no items.
For advanced, there will be mushrooms, green shells, and bananas.
For Intermediate, there will be mushrooms, green shells, red shells, fake items boxes, and maybe a small chance of getting a star.
For beginner, there will be all items, including the powerful ones, so the little kids can enjoy their little noobfest without disturbing the better players.That would be such a perfect idea. Hope Nintendo does something like that next time.

I'm really good at MKW, but if this were to be real, I'd pick advanced. I would want atleast SOME items.Yeah. Good placement and using of those items take strategy and skill.

@Al
If that's the case, then why add them anyway?

ACCF18
11-13-2010, 08:12 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 05:24:57 PM]@Al
If that's the case, then why add them anyway?He's probably talking about worldwide racing.

Jake.
11-13-2010, 10:43 PM
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility ~ Simular to Animal Crossing, so if you like AC, HM is for you
Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 ~ Enjoyable
Pokepark Wii ~ A free roaming Pokemon game, what couldn't be better?
I'll add more when I'm on my PC.

MrChuckman64
11-13-2010, 10:54 PM
The 2 Super Mario Galaxys, I don't know who told you that they sucked, but whoever they are, they lied. Big time. These are 2 of the best games of the generation.

Jake.
11-13-2010, 11:33 PM
The 2 Super Mario Galaxys, I don't know who told you that they sucked, but whoever they are, they lied. Big time. These are 2 of the best games of the generation.Actually the second isn't as good. It's repetative and every Bowser battle is basically the same... And the plandmts are not as challenging to complete, it never took me more than 5 minutes to complete the level. You should buy the first one... But the second one is good only because I like cute Yoshi.

[Nook]
11-14-2010, 12:33 AM
The 2 Super Mario Galaxys, I don't know who told you that they sucked, but whoever they are, they lied. Big time. These are 2 of the best games of the generation.Actually the second isn't as good. It's repetative and every Bowser battle is basically the same... And the plandmts are not as challenging to complete, it never took me more than 5 minutes to complete the level. You should buy the first one... But the second one is good only because I like cute Yoshi.There really needs to be a Mario game that challenges me. All my friends are talking about how they're stuck on a boss battle or a galaxy and I'm like, "The hell?"

Bacon Boy
11-14-2010, 02:59 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 11:33:30 PM]

The 2 Super Mario Galaxys, I don't know who told you that they sucked, but whoever they are, they lied. Big time. These are 2 of the best games of the generation.Actually the second isn't as good. It's repetative and every Bowser battle is basically the same... And the plandmts are not as challenging to complete, it never took me more than 5 minutes to complete the level. You should buy the first one... But the second one is good only because I like cute Yoshi.There really needs to be a Mario game that challenges me. All my friends are talking about how they're stuck on a boss battle or a galaxy and I'm like, "The hell?"Super Mario Bros. 3
Hated that game.

ACCF18
11-14-2010, 03:18 PM
Super Mario Bros. 3
Hated that game. ...

Son, you need help. Big time.

Bacon Boy
11-14-2010, 03:27 PM
Super Mario Bros. 3
Hated that game. ...

Son, you need help. Big time.Why? I was like five when I first played it. I could never beat it. I downloaded it on the VC, but I forgot about it. Might go play it later. Still hate it, though.

ACCF18
11-15-2010, 07:42 PM
Super Mario Bros. 3
Hated that game. ...

Son, you need help. Big time.Why? I was like five when I first played it. I could never beat it. I downloaded it on the VC, but I forgot about it. Might go play it later. Still hate it, though. Well, I understand that you hated it because you could never beat it, but that doesn't mean you should hate it. That's the best game on the NES. I never beat it as a child, but still loved that game. Now I can, since I'm a better gamer.

Garrett x50 cal
11-15-2010, 11:59 PM
Bacebawl!

-Aaron
11-16-2010, 06:37 AM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.
But be careful, there's stupid little kids online who have no skill and only rely on items to win the race.If you're that bothered by items, then it's time for you to move to a different game. Most items in Mario Kart can be easily countered, even the "powerful items", so it's just the skill difference that you're mad about.

ACCF18
11-16-2010, 07:29 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.
But be careful, there's stupid little kids online who have no skill and only rely on items to win the race.If you're that bothered by items, then it's time for you to move to a different game. Most items in Mario Kart can be easily countered, even the "powerful items", so it's just the skill difference that you're mad about.No, it's a great game, but the items are gay.

-Aaron
11-17-2010, 07:18 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.
But be careful, there's stupid little kids online who have no skill and only rely on items to win the race.If you're that bothered by items, then it's time for you to move to a different game. Most items in Mario Kart can be easily countered, even the "powerful items", so it's just the skill difference that you're mad about.No, it's a great game, but the items are gay.Like I said, it's the skill difference. Learn to counter items, and learn where and when to use them.

VantagE
11-17-2010, 09:06 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
lol Mario Kart Wii. I use to own that game, but I forgot it at my friends house one time, but I let him have it anyways. I like the game alot, but what I don't like, is when you're in first place, one little bump can send you to 12th...And that's why online play shouldn't include powerful items.

The next Mario Kart game better not include powerful items in online play or it can have a voting system where the people playing online can vote whether the race will include no items, just normal items, or powerful and normal items.
But be careful, there's stupid little kids online who have no skill and only rely on items to win the race.If you're that bothered by items, then it's time for you to move to a different game. Most items in Mario Kart can be easily countered, even the "powerful items", so it's just the skill difference that you're mad about.No, it's a great game, but the items are gay.the "items" and "powerful items" are part of the Mario Kart game genius... In fact they are a part of most Kart racing type of game... if you don't like them, you need to move to some other type of racing game like need for speed, or simulation racing like GT4

ACCF18
11-17-2010, 09:46 PM
,Nov 13 2010, 04:55:32 PM]
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepIf you're that bothered by items, then it's time for you to move to a different game. Most items in Mario Kart can be easily countered, even the "powerful items", so it's just the skill difference that you're mad about.No, it's a great game, but the items are gay.the "items" and "powerful items" are part of the Mario Kart game genius... In fact they are a part of most Kart racing type of game... if you don't like them, you need to move to some other type of racing game like need for speed, or simulation racing like GT4I know that, ''genius''. Compare Mario Kart Wii to other Mario Kart games. You notice, Mario Kart Wii items are rigged. Unlike 64 or Double Dash, Mario Kart Wii items are just pure luck. Doesn't take any skill.

VantagE
11-17-2010, 09:58 PM
Nice, trying to reuse the word I used to make me sound like an idiot. Nice try, but failed. The reason I just said "Mario Kart games" (Forgot the "s" in the earlier post for some reason), is because it is referring to all of the Mario Kart games... And yes, I have played Mario Kart Wii, and yes you are right that there is some luck. But you are wrong when saying they are rigged, like Aaron said, its a skill difference...

ACCF18
11-17-2010, 10:22 PM
Nice, trying to reuse the word I used to make me sound like an idiot. Nice try, but failed. The reason I just said "Mario Kart games" (Forgot the "s" in the earlier post for some reason), is because it is referring to all of the Mario Kart games... And yes, I have played Mario Kart Wii, and yes you are right that there is some luck. But you are wrong when saying they are rigged, like Aaron said, its a skill difference... Lol, not even CLOSE of trying to make you sound like an idiot. I'm just saying the fact. And yes, they are rigged. Especially one little bump can send you down to 12th place.

DashS
11-17-2010, 10:27 PM
mega man 10-classic art style, but still very enjoyable. it can be a bit frustrating at first, but once you get the feel for the game and memorize all of the enemies patterns you will have a blast

robo.samurai
11-17-2010, 11:36 PM
Hmm... sounds alright. I'm not gonna get Galaxy, I'm not so hyped on the new Mario games. A lot of people said it sucked too. it's an awesome game but you flip around alot making you feel like :X

-Aaron
11-18-2010, 12:04 AM
Nice, trying to reuse the word I used to make me sound like an idiot. Nice try, but failed. The reason I just said "Mario Kart games" (Forgot the "s" in the earlier post for some reason), is because it is referring to all of the Mario Kart games... And yes, I have played Mario Kart Wii, and yes you are right that there is some luck. But you are wrong when saying they are rigged, like Aaron said, its a skill difference... Lol, not even CLOSE of trying to make you sound like an idiot. I'm just saying the fact. And yes, they are rigged. Especially one little bump can send you down to 12th place. Of course they're rigged. Do you even realize how broken the game would be if they weren't? I bet you that if the items weren't rigged, you'd complain about why people in first place are getting stars, mega mushrooms, bullet bills and golden mushrooms and wish that the items were rigged. Just play the game, get good while having fun so you can enjoy the game even more.

Bacon Boy
11-18-2010, 08:41 PM
Nice, trying to reuse the word I used to make me sound like an idiot. Nice try, but failed. The reason I just said "Mario Kart games" (Forgot the "s" in the earlier post for some reason), is because it is referring to all of the Mario Kart games... And yes, I have played Mario Kart Wii, and yes you are right that there is some luck. But you are wrong when saying they are rigged, like Aaron said, its a skill difference... Lol, not even CLOSE of trying to make you sound like an idiot. I'm just saying the fact. And yes, they are rigged. Especially one little bump can send you down to 12th place. Of course they're rigged. Do you even realize how broken the game would be if they weren't? I bet you that if the items weren't rigged, you'd complain about why people in first place are getting stars, mega mushrooms, bullet bills and golden mushrooms and wish that the items were rigged. Just play the game, get good while having fun so you can enjoy the game even more.NO! COMPLAINING IS TOO MUCH FUN!

1) Super Mario Bros. 3 is by no means the best game on the SNES. It may be in your opinion, but I still hate it. Even though I can beat it now, I still hate it.

2) In EVERY SINGLE Mario Kart game, the items are rigged. You've never been able to get a star in first place. The only items you can get are bananas, turtle shells, and boxes. In second place, you have all of the aforementioned + mushrooms. You'd never be able to win if all of the good items were obtainable in first place.